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  • 08-25-2006, 09:24 PM
    dagreat1
    Quote Originally Posted by thelegendrvb
    Thats like saying Hughes is taking the easy way by fighting at 170. They both drop about the same amount of weight to make there weight classes.
    In a way yes as they both drop a ton of weight. Hughes drops 20lbs and Franklin drops 25 lbs but Hughes at 185 would be very difficult becasue he's short and the 185'ers are typically taller than the WW so he would have to overcome the height factor in every fight which could be very difficult.

    Franklin has the height so he would have no obstacles to overcome so it would be much easier for him to move back to 205.

    I honestly would've done the same thing as he could either be the #2-#4 guy in the LHW division or he could hold the belt in a weak division and make a great living on fighter salaries and endorsements as he would not be endorsing anything if he were a LHW so I would've done the same thing and he knows this as well, it's unfortunate that his chin is not made of iron or he could probabaly beat Chuck and eb the champion as Franklin is the craftier fighter but if you can;t take a puch, CHuck is the last person in the UFC that you want to fight right now.
  • 08-25-2006, 07:49 AM
    Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    I do however have to say that Franklin could fight at 205 and is seemingly taking the easy route to a belt he knows he can hang onto (great career move yes) and ducking the match we would all like to see which is Chuck vs Franklin.
    Thats like saying Hughes is taking the easy way by fighting at 170. They both drop about the same amount of weight to make there weight classes.



    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    I do think Franklin's chin is very questionable and i'm not trying to sound like Quarry but Tanner dropped him with 1 punch and the Crow dropped him with 1 punch late in the fight after taking a huge beating so he was drained when he landed that punch that dropped Franklin, therfore I think Chuck would KO him.
    Yeah his chin is questionable but he does have great recovery time. However, your right about Chuck KOing him.



    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    His offense is amazing, he is very crafty and extremely hard to hit, his fights are exciting however he is not the better champion IMO.
    Agreed
  • 08-25-2006, 07:13 AM
    Anthony
    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    Out of my entire post you found less than 2 setences to critique....

    for resons stated it IS irrelevant, resort back to my response to Luis for clarity as you've misconstrued my reason for it's irrelevance.
    You brought up something that was irrelevant, I made it relevant and you decided to show me up instead. Alrighty then.
  • 08-25-2006, 07:01 AM
    dagreat1
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    So why did you bring it up?



    Excuses? More like logic, no you will not see me say that. I dont give a shit who wins, I just want to see a good fight.

    Rich has a better chance to hang on to his belt then Hughes does. Rich only has 1 legit contender when Hughes has 3.

    Out of my entire post you found less than 2 setences to critique....

    for resons stated it IS irrelevant, resort back to my response to Luis for clarity as you've misconstrued my reason for it's irrelevance.

    I agree that Franklin certainly has the better chance to hold the belt for a longer span of time though it will be somewhat tarnished as fans (even newer the newer fans) will come to realize Franklin's competition is not on the level of GSP, Penn and Diego about 2 years from now.

    Through no fault of his own he will be bashed for not fighting the best of the best as the other top 185lbers are in Pride.

    I do however have to say that Franklin could fight at 205 and is seemingly taking the easy route to a belt he knows he can hang onto (great career move yes) and ducking the match we would all like to see which is Chuck vs Franklin.

    I do think Franklin's chin is very questionable and i'm not trying to sound like Quarry but Tanner dropped him with 1 punch and the Crow dropped him with 1 punch late in the fight after taking a huge beating so he was drained when he landed that punch that dropped Franklin, therfore I think Chuck would KO him.

    Also, Lyoto dropped him with a punch and a knee and nothing looked all that clean so if he takes a clean shot he will be out cold.

    His offense is amazing, he is very crafty and extremely hard to hit, his fights are exciting however he is not the better champion IMO.
  • 08-25-2006, 07:00 AM
    Luis Cruz
    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    The irrelevance of the PPV comment is not the comparison between the 2 headlining, it was the fact that Anthony made the comment that is was Rich's FIRST healining and was making the accusation that Rich broughtin more PPV than Hughes in Hughes' FIRST PPV headline and that is irrelevant and unfair as the sport has eveolved (the PPV accusation is not irrelevant whosoever however the basis that it is his FIRST headlining is irrelevant).

    I certainly am a Hughes fan but that does not weigh heavily in my opinion that he is a better champion than Franklin, I base that solely upon performance and Hughes has held the belt longer and faced tougher competition.

    Reagrding the bet yeah Franklin would have huge odds as he has A. Silva and Hughes has 2 world class fighters to contend with, I still think Hughes will beat them both however the chance that GSP or Penn beat Hughes is much more likely than Swick, Tanner, Nathan, etc. so if he gets by A. Silva he has a very good chance at holding the belt for a long time.

    The only fighter who could compete with him and IMO would beat him is the 36 year old Hendo. It would be a war, Hendo can't be KO'ed, has a huge right hand, extremely dominant wrestling is is arguably the best condition athlete in MMA as he does not gas in fights (Franklin has great cardio as well so it would be a war).
    Yea Hendo has GOOD cardio but certainly not the best condition by any means. Franklin could be argued to have that however. I've seen Hendo gassed before early in his career and recently and with his age it's not going to get better, yea Randy is an exception to the age rule. Hendo can be ko'd also, just because he hasn't doesn't mean he can't. He's been rocked before just used his wrestling or landed something of his own to save himself. Silva had him rocked a couple times if i remember correctly in a great fight. Franklin can KO Hendo, Hendo can KO Franklin. Hendo's wrestling is better, Franklin's submission game far superior to Hendo's. This is also the only person i see with a shot of beating Franklin but like someone else mentioned, Hendo's looked halfassed in some of his recent fights so i think because of age he'd lose. That's one of my top dream matches anyway to see right now.
  • 08-25-2006, 06:51 AM
    dagreat1
    Quote Originally Posted by Luis Cruz
    You were the first to use the argument of ppv buys so you just pretty much called your own argument using that irrevevant, no?

    What's baffling about arguing that Franklin is a better champion, he IS the more well rounded fighter of the two? The thing Matt has on Rich is time in the UFC, that's it. Had Rich been around as long, i would bet anything his dominance in the MW division would be equal to or more impressive that Hughes right now being that Hughes lost already. I would make a wager that Rich holds the title longer but i already got stiffed once by someone not paying a bet on here so i won't waste my time, we'll just have to wait and see and then bring this thread back up. It's not that he hates Hughes, it's that you're a huge Hughes fan.

    The irrelevance of the PPV comment is not the comparison between the 2 headlining, it was the fact that Anthony made the comment that is was Rich's FIRST healining and was making the accusation that Rich broughtin more PPV than Hughes in Hughes' FIRST PPV headline and that is irrelevant and unfair as the sport has eveolved (the PPV accusation is not irrelevant whosoever however the basis that it is his FIRST headlining is irrelevant).

    I certainly am a Hughes fan but that does not weigh heavily in my opinion that he is a better champion than Franklin, I base that solely upon performance and Hughes has held the belt longer and faced tougher competition.

    Reagrding the bet yeah Franklin would have huge odds as he has A. Silva and Hughes has 2 world class fighters to contend with, I still think Hughes will beat them both however the chance that GSP or Penn beat Hughes is much more likely than Swick, Tanner, Nathan, etc. so if he gets by A. Silva he has a very good chance at holding the belt for a long time.

    The only fighter who could compete with him and IMO would beat him is the 36 year old Hendo. It would be a war, Hendo can't be KO'ed, has a huge right hand, extremely dominant wrestling is is arguably the best condition athlete in MMA as he does not gas in fights (Franklin has great cardio as well so it would be a war).
  • 08-25-2006, 06:51 AM
    kronous76
    Quote Originally Posted by BritneySpearsGuy
    i know that Hughes is ranked higher as pound for pound, but i actually think Franklin is better. I know that Franklin hasn't been around the UFC as long as Hughes or had that title too long. But I think Franklin has better all around skills. He can stand up and strike and knockout opponents, as well as ground and pound like most top wrestlers, and he knows submissions. Hughes is really just a grappler that takes the fight to the ground and pounds his opponents, or submits him. I never see him standup and strike.

    What do you guys think??
    Better Champion? I would personally say Franklin...he is (like someone had stated before) more marketable and comes off being more respectable as a champ...time will tell if he is that good as he hopefully will get a chance to fight swick and win then move on to anderson silva...and i can't wait for that fight...it's gonna be great.
  • 08-25-2006, 06:38 AM
    Anthony
    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    That is irrelevant
    So why did you bring it up?


    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    You are just making excuses now and your next one will be that Penn is the greatest and he will beat Hughes at UFC 63.
    Excuses? More like logic, no you will not see me say that. I dont give a shit who wins, I just want to see a good fight.

    Rich has a better chance to hang on to his belt then Hughes does. Rich only has 1 legit contender when Hughes has 3.
  • 08-25-2006, 06:35 AM
    Luis Cruz
    Quote Originally Posted by dagreat1
    That is irrelevant, the thread topic is not "who sold th emost PPV's their FIRST headlining", it is who is the better UFC champion, obvious choice is Hughes. I am baffled that anyone would even try to compare the 2 as far as better champion.
    And in addition to it being completly irrelevant it is not a fair assessment as the sport is obviously much more popular now than it was when Hughes made his first headlining.
    You were the first to use the argument of ppv buys so you just pretty much called your own argument using that irrevevant, no?

    What's baffling about arguing that Franklin is a better champion, he IS the more well rounded fighter of the two? The thing Matt has on Rich is time in the UFC, that's it. Had Rich been around as long, i would bet anything his dominance in the MW division would be equal to or more impressive that Hughes right now being that Hughes lost already. I would make a wager that Rich holds the title longer but i already got stiffed once by someone not paying a bet on here so i won't waste my time, we'll just have to wait and see and then bring this thread back up. It's not that he hates Hughes, it's that you're a huge Hughes fan.
  • 08-25-2006, 06:01 AM
    dagreat1
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony


    That was Rich's ONLY headlining PPV event. How many buys was Hughes first headlining event?
    That is irrelevant, the thread topic is not "who sold th emost PPV's their FIRST headlining", it is who is the better UFC champion, obvious choice is Hughes. I am baffled that anyone would even try to compare the 2 as far as better champion.
    And in addition to it being completly irrelevant it is not a fair assessment as the sport is obviously much more popular now than it was when Hughes made his first headlining.




    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    GSP is a differnt fighter now, so what about BJ Penn?
    Yes yes I know, he is a totally different fighter now since his loss to Hughes as he showcased in that DOMINANT performance against Penn. Surely he has improved as has Hughes and as has everyone however once you hit a certain level of greatness you no longer make massive transitions from fight to fight, your rate of improvement is drastically reduced as you are already at that level and I am in no way saying GSP has peaked but I strongly feel he will not peak for another few years therfore he will not become champion until a few more years.

    You can learn from your mistakes which he seemingly has as he was not raped in the ground by Miller however Miller is not as strong as Hughes and GSP was NOT on his back.

    He is undeniably the UFC future at WW however Hughes is still in his prime and there is no WW that can beat him right now. After he beats Penn the excuses will follow and that accusations that GSP would've won had he not injured himself, it is all speculation, Hughes is the champion and was on a 13 fight win streak before Penn beat him and since he is back on a tear with 5 consecutive wins and he trains with one of the premier training camps that continues to evolve in the sport with techniques that are extremely effective.

    You can hate on Hughes, I can tell you favor the standup but Hughes will remain champion for 2-3 more years.

    You are just making excuses now and your next one will be that Penn is the greatest and he will beat Hughes at UFC 63.
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