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  • 08-14-2007, 10:00 PM
    Clint
    Quote Originally Posted by matto
    where there is money there is always the possibility. money can even change the proudest of fighters. the people at sherdog that said it were actually pritty credible, i wish i had the link but ill find it eventually and post it here. those japanese are crazy about somebody just for being from japan.
    Here is one of the things from Sherdog:
    Fights that are generally considered by consensus to be worked or thrown:

    Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.

    Dan Severn vs. Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (U-Japan) - Severn denies that his fight against pro wrestler Matsunaga was worked, but watching the fight itself leaves little doubt and the general consensus is that this was a worked fight.

    Kimo vs Kazushi Sakuraba (S-Cup) - This was billed as a legit NHB fight on a Shootboxing card, but it turns out it was not legit (another NHB fight on the card, M. Illioukhin vs Mestre Hulk was legit). The fight looks very real and Kimo lands a number of really solid shots and headbutts. There are several versions of what took place in this fight, but perhaps the closest thing to the truth is the version that has Sakuraba carrying Kimo for most of the fight before finally taking a dive without Kimo's knowledge. That would explain Kimo throwing real shots and Sak playing defense the whole time and also the fact that Kimo vehemently (and convincingly) insists it was legit, yet Sakuraba has said on several occasions that his first shoot MMA fight was the Conan Silviera fight, not the Kimo fight.

    Murakami Kazunari vs. John Dixon (Pride 1) - It was well-known in the fight community even before the first Pride took place that the Kazunari-Dixon and Kitao-Jones fights would be works. Pride's initial intent was to showcase different types of fights in addition to NHB - full contact karate, kickboxing and also shoot-style works like RINGS and PWFG. Later Pride would be more secretive about its worked fights.

    Koji Kitao vs Nathan Jones (Pride 1) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kyle Sturgeon (Pride 3) - All of Takadas "wins" were blatant works. This is pretty much common knowledge.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Mark Coleman (Pride 5) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Alexander Otsuka (Pride 7) - See above.


    Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:

    Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Gary Goodridge (Pride 6) - Anytime a pro wrestler (other than Sak) gets a win in Pride people will claim it was a work. Gary denies this was a work but many people suspect it was. Hard to tell for sure.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Masaaki Sataki (Pride 11) - See above.

    Vitor Belfort vs. Joe Charles (Ultimate Japan 1) - Vitor was sick and refused to fight unless he was able to pick his opponent. He chose Charles who was one of his training partners at the time. No strikes were thrown in what turned out to be a grappling match, with Vitor winning by armbar. Whether this was a worked fight or they simply had a gentleman's agreement not to strike is open to question.

    Mark Schultz vs. Leopoldo Montenegro (Jungle Fight 1) - Schultz claims this was work but everyone else involved denies it. There have been questions about some of Montenegro's other fights in the Inoki run promotion as well.

    Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.
    Also Rampage said in an interview that they offered him an extra $20K in his fight to Saku if he lost and didn't tap to a sub. He turned down the offer and lost but tapped.
  • 08-14-2007, 09:57 PM
    Jon-E-Law
    money money money people will do anything for money so yes but there is way to much up and coming talent so they wont have to for a while
  • 08-11-2007, 07:19 PM
    Mac
    I think it's getting farther away from that now that Pride is no longer run by an organized crime syndicate.
  • 08-11-2007, 06:46 PM
    twankydawg
    I think any self respecting fighter wouldn't throw a fight that they could win considering they would run the chance of ruining their careers for a 1 time payout. There is too much talent and money to be made in the sport for the fighters, orgs, and promoters to do something that retarded. I'm not saying it won't happen but if it does I believe it would be rare. There is already a niche market on fixed fights, it's called professional wrestling.
  • 08-11-2007, 02:06 AM
    matto
    Quote Originally Posted by Transworld
    Not that is is true or happening at the present time. Just asking if it would be possible? I would like to change the thread title to "would it be possible to fix MMA fights?
    where there is money there is always the possibility. money can even change the proudest of fighters. the people at sherdog that said it were actually pritty credible, i wish i had the link but ill find it eventually and post it here. those japanese are crazy about somebody just for being from japan.
  • 08-11-2007, 01:37 AM
    jamesg2323
    What would be the point for the Org to fix matches? In terms of making more money it doesn't make sense. UFC already makes more PPV money than the "fixed" WWE.
  • 08-10-2007, 11:08 PM
    2mcgrath
    like stated they have worked to hard to get their foot into the mainstream door.i think if they were caught doing that then it would strip all credibility they have built up.so why risk it?also if they do start fixing fights then it wont be much different than the fake ass pro wrestling and i will no longer be a viewer
  • 08-10-2007, 08:50 PM
    Transworld
    Quote Originally Posted by matto
    on sherdog there were a ton of rumors of fixed fights in pride on beloved japanese heros. i hope that isnt true and if it did we woudlnt really know where fighters rank.

    Not that is is true or happening at the present time. Just asking if it would be possible? I would like to change the thread title to "would it be possible to fix MMA fights?
  • 08-10-2007, 08:25 PM
    matto
    on sherdog there were a ton of rumors of fixed fights in pride on beloved japanese heros. i hope that isnt true and if it did we woudlnt really know where fighters rank.
  • 08-10-2007, 08:14 PM
    pillow
    To answer the question of if the sport needs dominant fighters:

    Fans' alliances to fighters is a strange thing. Honestly, I got into AA cause he looks like a Beast, has vampire mouthguards, and I dug his aggressive style.

    I think style makes fans, more than wins do.

    I have a buddy who like Spencer Fisher because of his flying knee a long time ago, for example. People hop onto fighter's hype trains for very strange reasons. Being particularly dominant isn't necessary.

    You know, the multitude of Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell fans probably comes from the fact that they're pretty easy to relate to, and Hughes had his slams and wrestling strength. And Chuck has quite the striking highlight reel.

    Look at Tim Sylvia. He was relatively dominant (by some standards) for a far piece. But I can't think of a single true fan of his, rather than the "pity fans" that pretend to like him, haha.

    So, no, I don't think it's so important that single fighters emerge. All fighters have a certain ego about them that made them become a fighter in the first place, so there will be no shortage of appealing personalities.
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