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  • 12-16-2010, 03:34 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. MMA View Post
    Okay, so you confirmed that he gassed in both Edgar fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    Well I just wanted to point out that this Penn conditioning "myth" has more truth to it than people would like to believe.
    I'm not talking about the Edgar fights--although I don't see it as conditioning that cost him the second one, I thought it was game planning. I'm talking about when mopes were saying Diego was going to come out and outwork him because "BJ has always had conditioning issues" and he couldn't keep up with Sanchez's pace, etc.

    I think there is a difference between a focused Penn and an unfocused Penn...and even then, I don't believe lack of focus is what lost him the second Edgar fight, it was lack of a coherent fight plan. But I think his cardio ranges between very good and excellent, where the myth has him at poor to fair at best.


    Quote Originally Posted by the_dark_angel_4ever View Post
    I think it'll be interesting if/when Fedor smashes Werdum in a rematch, say in 60 seconds or so.... do they then immediately have to have a rubber match? THAT right there is the exact reason I dislike immediate rematches.
    That's an interesting case, but is by no means a standard situation. In SF, you have a "champion" [pardon me while I puke a little bit, just typing that] who has never faced a top 10 opponent in his entire career at HW and refuses to defend the belt. You have two fighters who are ranked above him who at least seem to be willing to fight [Werdum asked for a rematch immediately, and then needed surgery] so I'd actually be fine with a rubber match there. Let AO fight K1, let him pick off B or C level guys in DREAM--it would be great to strip him of the SF belt, but Coker lacks the testicular mass to pull that off--and continue to pretend to be the best SF has to offer, when everyone else knows otherwise.

    The only one I'd be concerned about is Bigfoot, who I feel needs another win to solidify him as a solidly-ranked top 10 fighter regardless.

    rh
  • 12-16-2010, 01:36 AM
    IceCold48
    immeidate rematches are necessarry in some cases.

    shoguna nd machida definetly did. the ufc and other mma promotions have no say over what the godamn judges do and losing a title shot really fucks up your career so there should be a rematch there if stupid incompetent boxing judges are the reason you lose.

    silva/sonnen as much as it broke my heart should not have been an immediate rematch. he legit lost even though he killed him for 23 minutes. if they are going to give rematches to guys because they lose in the 5th round then what is the point of even having a fifth round? dont get it.

    as for that list, a lot of the fights in the same result sections were retarded rematches where the guy who lost really had not changed that much that they shouldve gotten another shot at the original winner. franklin/silva prime example. if fitch and gsp remtach itll be the same situation.
  • 12-16-2010, 01:24 AM
    The Return Of......
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. MMA View Post
    Okay, so you confirmed that he gassed in both Edgar fights.
    im a huge bj fan (the fighter as well as receiving). i would love to think that he just wasnt prepared and though hell as long as i dont have a sinus infection i should walk through this kid and his cardio just wasnt there.

    but couldnt it also be that since so many people do question his cardio that if he losses he just throughs that out the to try to save face from saying he beat me. straight up he just beat me
  • 12-15-2010, 11:03 PM
    the_dark_angel_4ever
    Quote Originally Posted by carbondioxide830 View Post
    havent been around in a few days, but this is a really good thread.

    if the issue is about fedor getting a rematch w/ werdum, i oppose and say werdum should rematch overeem instead. a rematch from a fight years pass is always more interesting than a fight that just happened.

    it's safe to say overeem is a different fighter than the first time he and werdum fought, but to be honest, i don't see fedor or werdum changing all that much since last summer (i guess that's why you want the rematch, huh?).

    with that said, this is the perfect platform for me to campaign for st. pierre/penn III after bj smashes fitch!
    I think it'll be interesting if/when Fedor smashes Werdum in a rematch, say in 60 seconds or so.... do they then immediately have to have a rubber match? THAT right there is the exact reason I dislike immediate rematches.
  • 12-15-2010, 10:36 PM
    carbondioxide830
    havent been around in a few days, but this is a really good thread.

    if the issue is about fedor getting a rematch w/ werdum, i oppose and say werdum should rematch overeem instead. a rematch from a fight years pass is always more interesting than a fight that just happened.

    it's safe to say overeem is a different fighter than the first time he and werdum fought, but to be honest, i don't see fedor or werdum changing all that much since last summer (i guess that's why you want the rematch, huh?).

    with that said, this is the perfect platform for me to campaign for st. pierre/penn III after bj smashes fitch!
  • 12-15-2010, 08:35 PM
    SWIFTboy
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    Well I just wanted to point out that this Penn conditioning "myth" has more truth to it than people would like to believe.
    OR it's so powerfull that BJ has been sucked into it!!!
  • 12-15-2010, 08:22 PM
    Sakara=Excitement
    Well I just wanted to point out that this Penn conditioning "myth" has more truth to it than people would like to believe.
  • 12-15-2010, 08:13 PM
    Dr. MMA
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    Well Penn even said he didn't have the conditioning for the Edgar rematch.
    Okay, so you confirmed that he gassed in both Edgar fights.
  • 12-15-2010, 08:10 PM
    Sakara=Excitement
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    That's one of the issues, particularly because Rogan stated repeatedly that he'd gassed...Joe later went on to retract that statement, but the damage was done, becuase if people see/hear it on TV, then it must be true.


    He's said he's worked to improve it, but the myth is that it cost him multiple fights.

    I can guarantee that there will be a ton of dipshit posters who will question Penn's conditioning and cardio for the Fitch fight as it gets closer. It's too firmly imbedded in the public psyche to go away.

    rh
    Well Penn even said he didn't have the conditioning for the Edgar rematch.

    BJ Penn Still Looking to Pass Cardio Quiz After 23 Professional Fights | 5thRound.com – UFC News, Strikeforce and MMA News, UFC 125 Play-by-Play Results

    “I tried some stuff in the Frankie Edgar fight. I didn’t defend the takedowns as hard as I wanted to because I wanted to try a couple sweeps, but I didn’t have the conditioning,” Penn admitted in an interview with Joe Rogan (Transcribed by CagePotato). “[It’s] always a wake-up call when you lose because you know you’re going to alter something in your training. Something has to change in the training.
  • 12-15-2010, 08:07 PM
    Dr. MMA
    Good thread SWIFTboy. During the Machida-Shogun rematch, Goldberg mentioned that there has been a rematch 27 times in the UFC where the original winner won 13 times, the opponent won 13 times and 1 went to a draw. So it's 13-13-1. Shogun eventually won that rematch, Frankie beat Penn again, Fitch beat Alves again, Lytle beat Serra and GSP beat Kos again (from the top of my head), so it's 16-15-1. I'm probably missing 1 or 2 other rematches.

    I'm not sure if Goldberg included trilogies, which is why I didn't mentioned Hughes-Penn 3

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    It's worth noting because it's one of two timed Penn ever actually gassed in an MMA fight. The second time was against Georges at UFC 58,--in a fight where Georges also gassed, although that is commonly overlooked. It is the only shred of reality to the myth of Penn not having any conditioning.
    Penn has also admitted that he gassed in the first Frankie Edgar fight and I'm unsure if he said the same for the 2nd one. The reason GSP's is overlooked is because BJ looked more tired than GSP and GSP had his nose broken, which forced him to breathe from his mouth and the open mouth is commonly seen as a sign of fatigue.

    I agree with SWIFTboy about weaknesses getting magnified for elite fighters.
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