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  • 08-03-2011, 09:32 AM
    dbader08
    Quote Originally Posted by rampage9712 View Post
    Dan doesnt want to go back to 185, who could blame him at his age and point in his career. Not sure about him going way below 185. He was a master at cutting weight. He was a big MW. Anderson has an inch on him and significantly less muscle, especially now that Dan made the permanent move up as he looked bigger in his last couple of fights. I doubt Anderson would need to cut more to get to MW than him, but we can agree to disagree.

    I definitely don't think he could go far below 185. I wouldn't say that Anderson has signifigantly less muscle, especially at 205, like in his fight with Forrest. A bit, yes. I would also say that Silva is more than an inch taller than Dan, it definitely looked that way at their stare down. Anderson not having a super stocky upper body build helps with allowing him to throw very quick straight punches and kicks, though, imo. Alot of thai based fighters have that type of build.


    Your right, Dan is a wrestler and a master at weight cutting, which further proves the point I'm trying to make-that Anderson would have just as much if not more to gain in a fight at 205 pounds, that and the fact that he said making 185 was a bit difficult. I think that whole idea is just something that bitter Henderson fans like to say in an attempt to garner themselves more hope, when trying to convince themselves he is the better fighter or would do better at a higher weight, leaving blame to be placed on a weight cut. Why would people even bring up Anderson fight Dan at 205, ya know? He's the UFC MW champ, and we all know Hendo's chances of beating Jones aren't that great, if Dana even decides to let him unify the belt with Jones before fighting Mousasi-who I think would beat Dan.

    Either way, I'm sure it would be a hell of a fight lol
  • 08-03-2011, 08:59 AM
    Kimbo> Rampage
    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    e pretty dense-boned individuals, just look at their chins and foreheads.

    and like I said above, has Hendo ever complained about cutting to 185? Only 1 time, and that was against Shields, which was after he fought Silva, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medicine he was taking
    Dan doesnt want to go back to 185, who could blame him at his age and point in his career. Not sure about him going way below 185. He was a master at cutting weight. He was a big MW. Anderson has an inch on him and significantly less muscle, especially now that Dan made the permanent move up as he looked bigger in his last couple of fights. I doubt Anderson would need to cut more to get to MW than him, but we can agree to disagree.

  • 08-03-2011, 08:52 AM
    dbader08
    Quote Originally Posted by rampage9712 View Post
    All speculation. Im not going to claim to know exactly how much anderson weighs before he starts cutting water weight or during a fight at mw, but I guess that not to be the case. Dan is a natural MW, you could also argue that Anderson is also a natural MW. but that fact is that a huge chunk of his career Anderson fought below 170. He has never been a very muscular guy. But being tall and lanky everybody says how huge he is.

    Look at other guys like Kendall grove, Diabate, or Cory hill. Just because you are tall and lanky doesnt mean that your natural weight is much larger than other fighters in your division.

    The term "Frame" can go many different ways, depending on how people personally see it.

    For Example:Take a guy like carlos condit who is listed at 6'1 with a 76 inch reach. Just as Rampage is. That doesnt mean that they have the same frame. Bone structures, natural muscle and other factors come into the equation. Look how much broader rampage's shoulders are, look at the difference in the size of their hands, heads, hips, etc. The natural muscle that rampage has that carlos doesnt.

    Guys can add a ton of muscle while others wont so it can become tricky, but you cannot just go by Height and Reach to determine somebody's "Frame".
    Yes that is all pretty obvious stuff.

    Im just going with what Anderson said, which was that making 185 was a bit difficult for him, and I doubt he could make 170 now. He could probably make a catchweight of lower than 185, but so could Hendo. Maybe you should read some of what you posted because Anderson being tall and having long limbs might make him look smaller, but in general hes really not, his muscle is just spread out more across his body, as opposed to being stocky like Henderson. They both seem like pretty dense-boned individuals, just look at their chins and foreheads.

    and like I said above, has Hendo ever complained about cutting to 185? Only 1 time, and that was against Shields, which was after he fought Silva, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medicine he was taking. So your right, it is all speculation, but according to Silva, he has had a bit more of a problem making 185 in his career than Dan.
  • 08-03-2011, 08:48 AM
    Kimbo> Rampage
    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    I know I went back and edited my post clarifying that, and said that while that is a valid point, the same point is valid for Henderson. I doubt Henderson stays in perfect shape all the time either, hes definitely had fights where he hasn't looked as good as alot of the time and has gassed, like his fight with shields. Either way you look at it, Anderson has to cut more weight.

    All speculation. Im not going to claim to know exactly how much anderson weighs before he starts cutting water weight or during a fight at mw, but I guess that not to be the case. Dan is a natural MW, you could also argue that Anderson is also a natural MW. but that fact is that a huge chunk of his career Anderson fought below 170. He has never been a very muscular guy. But being tall and lanky everybody says how huge he is.

    Look at other guys like Kendall grove, Diabate, or Cory hill. Just because you are tall and lanky doesnt mean that your natural weight is much larger than other fighters in your division.

    The term "Frame" can go many different ways, depending on how people personally see it.

    For Example:Take a guy like carlos condit who is listed at 6'1 with a 76 inch reach. Just as Rampage is. That doesnt mean that they have the same frame. Bone structures, natural muscle and other factors come into the equation. Look how much broader rampage's shoulders are, look at the difference in the size of their hands, heads, hips, etc. The natural muscle that rampage has that carlos doesnt.

    Guys can add a ton of muscle while others wont so it can become tricky, but you cannot just go by Height and Reach to determine somebody's "Frame".
  • 08-03-2011, 08:38 AM
    dbader08
    Quote Originally Posted by rampage9712 View Post
    It was probably mainly revolving around the rib injury. Not because Chael did serious damage with his GNP.


    He said he walks around at that weight. Just like Forrest and Rampage have been known to weight 250+ that doesnt mean that they cut the water weight from that point. All fighters dont stay in perfect shape when they are not fighting. Its not like he just goes in the sauna for the weigh ins weighing that much. Fighters lose a ton of weight during their camps. When all is said and done, he has his body fat % down from his camp, he isnt anywhere near 220 when he fights at MW. He has fought at 167 for a large part of his career, He isnt as big as many make him out to be. Watch is upcoming fight with Okami, that is a huge MW.
    I know I went back and edited my post clarifying that, and said that while that is a valid point, the same point is valid for Henderson. I doubt Henderson stays in perfect shape all the time either, hes definitely had fights where he hasn't looked as good as alot of the time and has gassed, like his fight with shields. Either way you look at it, Anderson has to cut more weight.

    I guess you just didn't read the part where Anderson said it was a bit difficult for him to make 185?

    Also, what makes you think he wouldnt also have a strength and conditioning advantage at 205 just like Hendo does, since he is in fact the bigger fighter, and since both of his performances at 205 were flawless?

    The only time Henderson has ever said making 185 was difficult, was when he fought Shields, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medication that he was taking. Either way, that wasn't the case for his fight with Silva.
  • 08-03-2011, 08:33 AM
    Kimbo> Rampage
    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    Also, you do know that Anderson had to go to the hospital after the post fight press conference for his fight with Chael, right?
    It was probably mainly revolving around the rib injury. Not because Chael did serious damage with his GNP.
    He said he walks around at that weight. Just like Forrest and Rampage have been known to weight 250+ that doesnt mean that they cut the water weight from that point. All fighters dont stay in perfect shape when they are not fighting. Its not like he just goes in the sauna for the weigh ins weighing that much. Fighters lose a ton of weight during their camps. When all is said and done, he has his body fat % down from his camp, he isnt anywhere near 220 when he fights at MW. He has fought at 167 for a large part of his career, He isnt as big as many make him out to be. Watch is upcoming fight with Okami, that is a huge MW.

    I love how people will find out a fighters weight at a random point and run with it.

    "Rampage Cuts from 250"
    "Anthony Johnson cuts from 220"
  • 08-03-2011, 08:20 AM
    dbader08
    Quote Originally Posted by rampage9712 View Post

    As far as Anderson, Dan probably has the best shot of any MW to beat him. He won the first round, but chose to stand with Anderson too long in the 2nd. Not getting ko'd, but he clearly got hurt. Anderson has insane accuracy and was landing more than he missed. Did chael really hurt anderson once he got him to the ground? Id hate to see what Dan would do to an Injured anderson that fought chael.

    Also, I have asked u a couple of times where do you keep getting these numbers to what Anderson actually cuts from? He said what he weighed a couple of times while not fighting or in camp and people run with it acting like he cuts down from that weight. Anderson cutting 30 pounds in water weight.... your insane.
    Its not like its easy for Dan to take Anderson down, he doesn't have the drive-straight-through-you takedown ability of a Chael Sonnen, I know Anderson stuffed a couple takedowns. Also, you do know that Anderson had to go to the hospital after the post fight press conference for his fight with Chael, right? It is my firm belief that Chael has equally as good of gnp as Hendo. Hendo did virtually nothing on the ground to Rampage, Franklin, and Silva. Chael can punch at a much higher volume than Dan can without getting tired, and Silva isn't an easy guy at all to land good shots on even when he's hurt. As many hard shots as Chael landed, he also missed quite a few. Dan is more content more of the time to just chill on top of someone and make sure he holds position rather than going balls to the wall like Chael, partly because Chael is stronger imo and a more relentless wrestler, and better at getting up off of his back. Just look at what happened to Dan when Silva had him on his back, and Chael, Chael reversed him right away.

    ...and really, I'm insane?...

    I’m used to training against bigger guys,” said Silva. A lot of people talk about moving up and down in weight,” he said. “For me, it is a little difficult to cut weight to make 185, but I walk around at 215 to 220 pounds, so for me to cut to 185, I do have to eat a little bit of a different diet, and do a little bit of a different type of cardio workout to get my weight down. For 205, I just eat differently, and I don’t have to cut as much weight. But both 185 and 205 work fine for me.”
    Anderson Silva Talks Weight Class Adjustments, 185 lbs vs 205 lbs | World Extreme Fighter ~ MMA Fights, Girls and Action ....ohhh, what's this? That would actually be 35 pounds, my friend. Obviously it isn't all water weight but what is your point? Henderson should have to cut less water weight than him considering he walks around at a lower weight.


    and DonFrye, that is not a very good point, considering for the Fedor fight, Hendo only weighed 2 pounds over what he usually weighs at LHW anyways, and it was just water weight...just saying, man.
  • 08-03-2011, 08:05 AM
    Kimbo> Rampage
    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    Rampage definitely landed the more solid punches in the first fight, and definitely did better as the fight went on, but I could see Henderson edging the first couple of rounds and possibly edging the 3rd or 4th, either way it was very close, I just felt like the few good flurries Rampage landed-especially the couple that seemed to rock Dan-were more signifigant than anything Dan did.

    I would take Rampage in the rematch. The main things that Rampage has had problems with in the UFC is quick takedowns mixed with striking and leg kicks, and Dan isn't that great at doing either. Hes a grecko guy but Rampage is so strong, hes just hard to bully around. They both have iron chins but I would give a slight edge in power to Rampage. Rampage has a better jab also, and hes better at blocking punches than Dan in my opinion.



    riv, saying Dan was gassed is a terrible excuse. It was only the 2nd round, and the entire 1st round was spent with Henderson in his most favorite position, on top of someone. It wasn't a very busy round at all. Plus, it was a title fight, he had months to prepare, and he had jumped from weight class to weight class in the past several times.

    Also, saying Dan's GNP actually hurts-Chael's ground and pound was FAR more effective than the pitter patter hammerfist ground and pound Dan did to Anderson in the first fight, and this is something that can not at all be blamed on Hendo being gassed, by anyone, considering it was the first round.

    Anderson cuts more weight than Dan to get to 185, and in my own personal opinion he beats Dan just as easily at 205.
    Its hard to really say who has more power, both hit so damn hard. Dan has improved his standup a ton over the years, but is his boxing on par with rampages? Not sure about that. The wrestling is almost a wash between them. They both will ko any opponent they fight if they land a good shot, except each other. The other thing is that Dan has improved some since the first fight while rampage i question if his hands are as sharp as the first time they fought. Training with Juanito and Team Punishment to training with The Wolfs Lair is a big downgrade.

    It is really hard to score those rounds, it could have gone either way but rampage got it.

    As far as Anderson, Dan probably has the best shot of any MW to beat him. He won the first round, but chose to stand with Anderson too long in the 2nd. Not getting ko'd, but he clearly got hurt. Anderson has insane accuracy and was landing more than he missed. Did chael really hurt anderson once he got him to the ground? Id hate to see what Dan would do to an Injured anderson that fought chael.

    Also, I have asked u a couple of times where do you keep getting these numbers to what Anderson actually cuts from? He said what he weighed a couple of times while not fighting or in camp and people run with it acting like he cuts down from that weight. Anderson cutting 30 pounds in water weight.... your insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonFrye View Post
    I agree, but my point was that Dan looked remarkably strong at that weight.
    Yes, now that it seems it wants to stay at LHW for good he seems to be in very good shape. He seems stronger and still doesnt have to cut. He has added some muscle for the permanent move.
  • 08-03-2011, 07:53 AM
    SimpleJack
    I agree, but my point was that Dan looked remarkably strong at that weight.
  • 08-03-2011, 07:38 AM
    dbader08
    Quote Originally Posted by DonFrye View Post
    If Dan came in as strong as he did against Fedor, it would be a long night for Rampage.
    Rampage isn't going to walk him down swining wildly, or let Dan reverse positions after knocking him down (I still don't know what the hell Fedor was thinking)
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