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  • 01-13-2013, 02:45 AM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre View Post
    Not a fan of Eddie getting the immediate UFC title shot, however after Bjorn refused to budge on making an instant rematch between their longtime LW champion Eddie and Chandler, after such a helluva fight, stating that Eddie'd have to go through the tournament like everyone else.

    Had they have handled Eddie differently, I think things may have turned out better. Instead, Eddie has been dicked around by the last two fights that were more or less meaningless and now Bellator is just being petty and Eddie's strive towards greener pastures is being stopped because they didn't do good business to begin with.
    That is indeed the reason why Alvarez is bolting for the UFC. Eddie was not impressed by Bjorn's decision nor the way he justified it.

    That's not to say that ZUFFA is an innocent, greater good or anything, but I've heard so many bullshit stories of Bjorn shafting low-level fighters and stopping them from taking fights elsewhere despite not being used, it pisses me off. The Tyson Nam situation was the most recent one that angered me.
    Exactly. Bellator only allows the higher-tier fighters take hand-picked fights.

    This tournment aspect is interesting but I'd rather an annual tournament than an all year format. Why? Because the reason why I held such disdain for Strikeforce is because of their treatment of their talent. Fighters were starved for fights under that regime and Bellator has that problem as well.
  • 01-12-2013, 10:04 PM
    W.Silva>C.Norris
    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    I agree with mostly everything you guys said, Im also not a big fan of fighters from different orgs coming in with an immediate title shot. But I also dont think that giving a guy with 3 straight wins a fight against someone coming off a loss, is good practice. I understand the level of competition is different but beating someone coming off a loss just loses a lot of value. And although there are exceptions to all rules I think that if you always do your best to place winners against winners and losers against losers, it brings a level of stability to the sport, which is something it really needs, given its dubious ranking system.
    I have _NO_ issue with a current title holder stepping into a challenger role, as in the Hendo vs Silva/Rampage fights, but entirely too many champions have been passed over (condit, pettis, AO off the top of my head) for "unification" fights to have much legit meaning.

    As for fighting guys off losses, if a fighters stock can somehow rise WITH a loss, how much loss of value can there be? GSP is about to fight someone coming off a loss, yet the tap-out t-shirt crowd seems to put a lot of value in that... Come to think of it, so is Aldo... and Jones....

    Stability in this sport is gone. Its not coming back without some sort of unification in ranking, rules, and regulations with the promotions and AC's.
  • 01-12-2013, 09:49 PM
    Fedorlei Gomipierre
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post

    I do not like the idea of Eddie Alvarez getting a free pass, but it is what the UFC conceded to get him. I feel they conceded far too much and Bellator is just being the douchey auction bidder that enjoys driving the price up when they know it is the item that the other wants.
    Not a fan of Eddie getting the immediate UFC title shot, however after Bjorn refused to budge on making an instant rematch between their longtime LW champion Eddie and Chandler, after such a helluva fight, stating that Eddie'd have to go through the tournament like everyone else.

    Had they have handled Eddie differently, I think things may have turned out better. Instead, Eddie has been dicked around by the last two fights that were more or less meaningless and now Bellator is just being petty and Eddie's strive towards greener pastures is being stopped because they didn't do good business to begin with.

    That's not to say that ZUFFA is an innocent, greater good or anything, but I've heard so many bullshit stories of Bjorn shafting low-level fighters and stopping them from taking fights elsewhere despite not being used, it pisses me off. The Tyson Nam situation was the most recent one that angered me.
  • 01-12-2013, 10:30 AM
    Bork_Lazer
    I agree with mostly everything you guys said, Im also not a big fan of fighters from different orgs coming in with an immediate title shot. But I also dont think that giving a guy with 3 straight wins a fight against someone coming off a loss, is good practice. I understand the level of competition is different but beating someone coming off a loss just loses a lot of value. And although there are exceptions to all rules I think that if you always do your best to place winners against winners and losers against losers, it brings a level of stability to the sport, which is something it really needs, given its dubious ranking system.
  • 01-12-2013, 12:53 AM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    I think most out-of-org fighters need a benchmark fight. Fighters like Gil and Eddie who have been dominant for so long sometimes motivate something different, but I would actually prefer for them to fight a top 5 first before getting the title shot.
    I agree with you.

    Fact is that they are not fighting the same calibur fighter that they used to within the UFC. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that the UFC holds the most top 10 fighters in every division.

    I do not like the idea of Eddie Alvarez getting a free pass, but it is what the UFC conceded to get him. I feel they conceded far too much and Bellator is just being the douchey auction bidder that enjoys driving the price up when they know it is the item that the other wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    Really, because Lombard came over to the UFC and fought Tim as his first fight who was coming from a 3 fight win streak including a big win over Okami. Now, Im not making this up, the vast majority of the time the ufc does not match winners with losers, its been that way for a long time. I think it would be disrespectful to him to come off 3 wins and fight a loser. Now a fight with Weidman makes sense to me because if he wins he gets massive credit and immediately because a huge threat to the division (regardless if he would fight Silva or not) and if Weidman wins, well thats huge for him, he just beat an ex champ!

    makes a lot of sense to me.
    The situation you described is between a champion from another organization and a top contender facing off in a number one contender matchup. The result was a boring matchup where neither deserved a titleshot despite them holding ranks #3 and #5.

    It's not about matching up winners with losers or anything like that.

    Matchmaking should be about placing evenly ranked fighters against each other.

    It doesn't work that way though.


    PS: I find it ridiculous how Diaz is ranked above Hendricks.
  • 01-11-2013, 11:52 PM
    AnchorPunch
    I think most out-of-org fighters need a benchmark fight. Fighters like Gil and Eddie who have been dominant for so long sometimes motivate something different, but I would actually prefer for them to fight a top 5 first before getting the title shot.

    And Lombard was supposed to fight Stann from what I recall, no? I think the Boetsch fight was just because of how injuries played out. I suppose Stann was coming off a win, but not a terribly notable one (sorry, S=E)
  • 01-11-2013, 11:30 PM
    Bork_Lazer
    I'm not saying this is the only fight out there for him, but I definitely don't see him being set up to fight someone fresh off a loss.
  • 01-11-2013, 11:26 PM
    Bork_Lazer
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post
    Why? Because Jacare has no top tier wins and win streaks outside the UFC are not held in the same regard to both the fans and the management.

    Jacare has the same problem as Mousasi. No absolutely top tier wins but has alot of solid wins against name fighters, not as many as Mousasi though.
    Really, because Lombard came over to the UFC and fought Tim as his first fight who was coming from a 3 fight win streak including a big win over Okami. Now, Im not making this up, the vast majority of the time the ufc does not match winners with losers, its been that way for a long time. I think it would be disrespectful to him to come off 3 wins and fight a loser. Now a fight with Weidman makes sense to me because if he wins he gets massive credit and immediately because a huge threat to the division (regardless if he would fight Silva or not) and if Weidman wins, well thats huge for him, he just beat an ex champ!

    makes a lot of sense to me.
  • 01-11-2013, 10:08 PM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    If he wins his next fight before joining the UFC he will be 3-0 in his last 3 fights. Why would he come in fighting a guy fresh off a loss?
    Why? Because Jacare has no top tier wins and win streaks outside the UFC are not held in the same regard to both the fans and the management.

    Jacare has the same problem as Mousasi. No absolutely top tier wins but has alot of solid wins against name fighters, not as many as Mousasi though.
  • 01-11-2013, 06:01 PM
    AnchorPunch
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre View Post
    I believe Jacare is just hitting his stride as a well-rounded mixed martial artist and thoroughly believe that he's a top five MW. I see him getting some really good wins in 2013 and being among the tops of the division.

    I think Belcher would be a dynamite UFC debut or loser of Bisping/Belfort.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    If he wins his next fight before joining the UFC he will be 3-0 in his last 3 fights. Why would he come in fighting a guy fresh off a loss?
    I agree with FG. Jacare might have three wins (probably) but the biggest would be over Ed Herman. He has some solid wins prior, but in a different org and still not top 10. I think he needs someone tested who we know is a solid 8-10 in ranking, regardless of their last win or loss as a test.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAL987 View Post
    Agreed. Weidman vs Jacare for #1 contender. If it happens in a timely manner...
    Jacare won't fight Anderson though, so it's a mess. Probably another reason for him to take it slow in the division.
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