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[LadyJag]

I know what you are thinking, and I already know that I'm going to be picked apart for this topic, BUT i must bring it up. I just want you to know that I'm not a die hard fan that knows the stats, and status of every fighter, what camps they train at WHO trains at those camps, what style they are, are they a ground fighter or a stand up fighter... etc...

BUT I must go back to UFC 65, and there was a fight on the card against Anthony Hardonk and Sherman Pendergarst. The fight ended with Hardonk KNOCKING Pendergarst out, but when I watched the fight end I couldn't help by be confused. Both fighters in the beginning are going back and forth, I was shocked they both didn't do a lot of striking on the ground hardly any elbows or hammer fists or anything like that. When the ref had them standing in 1:40 left in the first round you can see Hardonk picking Pendergarst apart with some serious leg kicks. Each one, most likely doing a lot of damage, then at 1:45 in round one you see Hardonk throw a combo and follow it up with another seriously leg kick KNOCKING Pendergarst out... from ... a... umm... leg kick? That couldn't be right so i rewinded it and played it in slow motion, Hardonk doesn't really connect with the combo only the hard leg kick and then Pendergarst went down.... NOW I can see the fight being ended with the other fighter in a lot of pain, or possibly with broken bones from the look of that leg kick, but at the end of the fight (which you don't see in this video that i have for you to see it yourself), The medic puts ice on his head? Which would lead us to believe he may have a concussion from a KNOCK OUT? Which means he would have had to be hit in the head... not the leg? They didn't do much with the leg really. Kinda Boggled my mind! Check it out for yourself!


Video Link: Antoni Hardonk fight - AOL Video


What about that Forrest Griffin, Tito Ortiz fight? Granted Tito got the first round, but Forrest dominated the other two and STILL Tito pulled out the decision??? I mean were the judges watching the same fight as all of us?

Or how about the Bisbing & Hammil fight??? Same idea?

OR how about those guys who lose their belts, and get to fight people who you know are GOOD but maybe aren't at that level of competition yet? Like Rich Franklin VS MacDonald, or Hughes' fight when he lost his title to St. Pierre, or EVEN Chucks fight with Jardine.. what a JOKE! Chuck looked gassed, out of shape, and Jardine has to watch when he punches to not put his head down all it takes is one knee to the head the right way and goodnight. And since Chuck didn't have anything to really lose, they stuck Wandy against Chuck.. which was much better then maybe having Wand fight Jardine... If I was coming into the UFC I wouldn't want to fight a guy like Jardine, Jardine isn't at Wands level by all means in my opinion. AND besides the money was in the Wand vs Liddell fight anyways its what alllll the fans wanted to see. But still Sometimes I wonder you know?

You can't say it hasn't really crossed your mind come on?

[sandywh]

What are you asking here?

Are fights fixed?

Are fighters taking dives?

Do scorecards have eraser marks?

I agree that some fights appear rigged, but rarely at a fighter level. The Hardonk fight I think Pendergarst just kind of quit once he realized that he was outclassed.

I also believe that many judges are influenced to lean certain directions before a fight. They likely get instruction and background on the fighters they are judging so when they see Tito going 15 minutes attempting takedowns and being a legend fighting Forrest whose background id submissions not attempt any submissions they voted what they were told in prefight.

[Afro]

Pendergrast got knocked out by a leg kick in that fight

[2mcgrath]

no i dont think the fights are rigged.think about it the ufc has way to much to lose to rig fights.if it was ever found that they rig fights their reputation is gone.the media can then pick them a part,and put their business in real jeopardy,and very possibly mma.

sure the judges make bad calls this is no secret ive seen it happen several times

but to sum it up are fights rigged no

[baba]

I thought Pendergrast got put down by a liver kick...... can't remember

Anyway, to answer your question -- NO. Judging is subjective to be sure, but no, fights aren't fixed.

[LadyJag]

Originally Posted by sandywh

What are you asking here?

Are fights fixed?

Are fighters taking dives?

Do scorecards have eraser marks?

I agree that some fights appear rigged, but rarely at a fighter level. The Hardonk fight I think Pendergarst just kind of quit once he realized that he was outclassed.

I also believe that many judges are influenced to lean certain directions before a fight. They likely get instruction and background on the fighters they are judging so when they see Tito going 15 minutes attempting takedowns and being a legend fighting Forrest whose background id submissions not attempt any submissions they voted what they were told in prefight.

and that in itself isn't a form of like being some what fixed? I mean as a judge u should have an opinion on a fighter just judge it as it looks? awe well! And i really wasn't asking anything... I was just thinking out loud i suppose!

Originally Posted by Afro

Pendergrast got knocked out by a leg kick in that fight

i think thats what i wrote?

[Dr. MMA]

u said forrest completely dominated tito in the last 2 rounds... i dont even know what domination you saw. 3rd round especially was really close.

First thing it's all perspective from the judges, and what aspects of the fight they score more, like sub attempts from bottom compared to takedowns or comparing leg kicks vs punches. Million fights have gone to a decision but there's only a few which really stand out as ridiculous judging (bisping/hamill being one) but the disputed decisions can usually go both ways (depends on how you look at it). For example tito/forrest, tito/vitor or bj/gsp. Even the bisping/hamill one... some ppl really did see bisping winning.

Secondly, the chuck/jardine fight... it makes no sense for chuck to take a dive against a guy who lost in less than a minute to a newcomer (alexander). Saying jardine is not even in the same class as wand? thats disrespectful to jardine who outscored and had a better gameplan than chuck (a guy who beat wand).

You said guys who lose their belt fight average fighters after? It's usually to boost up their confidence. Booking fights is obviously pre-planned and certain fighters are purposely matched up against others and chuck/jardine is an example of that. They expected chuck to beat him, but that didnt happen. Upsets happen (just look at serra/gsp or mirko/gonzaga).

In the hardonk fight, Pendergarst basically couldn't continue after taking vicious leg kicks from a previous k-1 striker. Why were they ice the head though u ask? They always do... the reason is because your brain controls the body temperature in your body.. specifically the hypothalamus. When you put ice on your head, it shifts the balance in the hypothalamic region of the brain, allowing the rest of ur body to cool even faster. This is why they do it.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by LadyJag

and that in itself isn't a form of like being some what fixed? I mean as a judge u should have an opinion on a fighter just judge it as it looks? awe well! And i really wasn't asking anything... I was just thinking out loud i suppose!

No offense, but if you are thinking out loud do you really need to make a thread about it on the main forum? It's kind of a pointless thread.

Sometimes I get the impression that you make threads and posts like this just to try and draw attention to your own blogs and myspace page.

[Intellectual]

i wouldn't be surprised at all if fighters take dives or fights are fixed.

[erockomania]

I don't think it's happened or will ever happen. WAY too much to lose. What I DO think should happen is a new batch of MMA trained (verbally) judges and/or scoring system. THAT is the reason some of the fights you are talking about go the wrong way, lame duck judges.