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[Y2JUBAE]

With all the criticism of Brock, I have been one of the people defending him. The recent criticism has been that he only had 3 fights before he got the title shot.

I was watching Inside MMA, 11-21-2008, and they brought up an interesting statistic on UFC champs. Randy Coture won his first championship in the ufc on his 4th fight. Just like Brock.

Behind them are Coleman - 6 fights
Tito - 7
BJ Penn - 9
Frank Mir - 9

Thought I would pass that on to anyone that missed it.

What an awesome passing of the torch for Brock to win the title on his 4th fight from Randy, a true legend, who also won his first title on his 4th fight.

I would say, "too bad they didn't fight in their primes" but man, Randy seems to be better in the past few years, than he ever was. He is proof, that fighting is 90 percent mental!

*Edit* Also, in this show, HW Dave Herman ripped Brock by saying "who did he beat? Heath Herring? Who hasn't beaten Heath Herring?" Dave, the answer is simple my man, YOU! Who has Dave Herman beaten? LOL! One win against Herring on your record is much more impressive than 12 wins against nobodys. His biggest fight was Ron freaking Waterman lol, Ron Waterman is the guy that DIDN'T make the cut for WWE. He and Brock entered at the same time, but never became good enough to be on tv. He and Brock actually tagged together in "dark matches" weeks before Brock debuted on tv. Just another interesting tidbit.

Edit** They also think UFC went ahead with this fight because, Obama said he was taxing the rich, so they did it now to collect the big check before it could get taxed lol! ***

[thumper]

I think most people know this. But back then it was a whole different ball game. so it's not really relevant to the structure and amount of people in each division

[Jory]

I just hope Nog subs his ass.

[Y2JUBAE]

Here are the "Smacktrack" statistics from Inside MMA for the Lesnar/Couture fight. I didn't see them posted anywhere and it didn't fit in with the purpose of the tidbit I wrote above, but, thought it might interest someone out there.

.................................................. .Brock.............Randy
Strikes Landed:........................... 45 .................12

Strikes Attempted:...................... 86 ..................22

Ground Strikes Attempted: ........... 46 ...................6

Ground Strikes Landed: ................27 ...................4

Takedowns: ...................................1 .....................0

Originally Posted by thumper

I think most people know this. But back then it was a whole different ball game. so it's not really relevant to the structure and amount of people in each division

I agree and disagree, respectfully.

Yes, now a days, fighters are smarter than they used to be. More complete so to speak.

However, back then, no fighter was complete, they were equally uneducated in MMA, so it was still, a "level" playing field.

I do see what you are saying though, and by your logic, it kinda makes Brock that much better of a fighter.

Originally Posted by Jory

I just hope Nog subs his ass.

I think he will to be honest. Out of the 4 fighters in this HW tourney, Nog is the one fighter I would bet on against the other 3 in any one on one match. I think Nog would submit, Randy, Brock and Mir. The Tournament, is just a formality IMO.

Brock however, is the only one of the other 3 that I think has a chance of beating Nog. Looking back at Heath vs. Nog, that shot Nog took from him, when it could have been over if Heath capitalized, a shot like that from Brock to Nog, and it is OVER. Brock has that taste for blood, that killer instinct. He won't be missing any opportunities to finish a fight.
Over all, my vote is Nog, but Brock comes in a close second. I can't see Mir beating Nog. They are both great at JJ, but Nog is superior in striking and seems not to be bothered by pain. Randy vs. Nog would have been interesting, but, I think Nog would have submitted him also. Nog's long limbs wrapped around anyone is some serious trouble for them.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by Y2JUBAE

I agree and disagree, respectfully.

Yes, now a days, fighters are smarter than they used to be. More complete so to speak.

However, back then, no fighter was complete, there were equally uneducated in MMA, so it was still, a "level" playing field.

I do see what you are saying though, and by your logic, it kinda makes Brock that much better of a fighter.

well back then it wasn't that hard to get a title shot. You only have to notch up a few wins and then you are the clear #1 contendor. The reason there was a lot of bitching about Brock getting a title shot is because someone was clearly ahead of him - Werdum. The other thing people said was why did Randy even have to fight, he should have just fought the winner of Nog/Mir.

Brock shouldn't get any shit for taking the fight though, anyone would've if they were in his place but UFC nor Randy should've.

[Y2JUBAE]

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

well back then it wasn't that hard to get a title shot. You only have to notch up a few wins and then you are the clear #1 contendor. The reason there was a lot of bitching about Brock getting a title shot is because someone was clearly ahead of him - Werdum. The other thing people said was why did Randy even have to fight, he should have just fought the winner of Nog/Mir.

Brock shouldn't get any shit for taking the fight though, anyone would've if they were in his place but UFC nor Randy should've.

I agree, but to be fair, looking at the HW contenders at the time, there wasn't anyone that had any kind of consistent or impressive winnings to be considered. Who would you have replaced with Brock against Randy? Kongo? Heath? Carwin? Werdum? When it's hard to decide who is a worthy contender, the logical choice is to pick the one that will have the biggest impact or biggest draw. This fight was great for the HW division in that it brought A LOT of attention to it. By Brock winning, obviously proves that he was in fact worthy for the shot.

I can't see how Werdum was way ahead of Brock either. He beat a guy that just lost to Keith Jardine? But Werdum lost to AA, and recently, got KTFO.

Werdum doesn't have the same argument that Machida has. Machida, while being criticized for having boring fights, has at least won all of them. Werdum, is only non-boring fight to me was his last that he got knocked out in a matter of seconds. He may have done great outside the UFC, but, in the UFC, it didn't look like he even desereved to be there much less get a title shot. Brock has done great in UFC, beating Herring, Randy, and even the loss to Mir was impressive as he clearly murdered Mir before getting caught. Mir had ZERO POINT ZERO in that match.

I really don't know where Werdum needs to go from here.

[OG&C_Inspector]

My question is if Brock beats either Mir or Nog who ever wins, (and I don't think he can beat Nog but can definitely beat Mir), then what do we say well the UFC HW division is a complete joke cause it has a pro-wrestler for a champion or accept the fact that Brock is for real is taking fighting seriously and is improving with each fight. I say 2 years from now Brock is to the HW division like GSP is to the welterweight now if not sooner. Also on a side note GSP got his title shot in his 8th fight and 4th in the UFC.

[smoogy]

UFC was a very different place 11 years ago and there weren't a lot of guys with impressive records in the beginning, obviously. Nowadays some challengers rack up over half a dozen UFC wins before they get a shot

[Repenter]

Originally Posted by OG&C_Inspector

My question is if Brock beats either Mir or Nog who ever wins, (and I don't think he can beat Nog but can definitely beat Mir), then what do we say well the UFC HW division is a complete joke cause it has a pro-wrestler for a champion or accept the fact that Brock is for real is taking fighting seriously and is improving with each fight. I say 2 years from now Brock is to the HW division like GSP is to the welterweight now if not sooner. Also on a side note GSP got his title shot in his 8th fight and 4th in the UFC.

the "BUT HE'S A FUCKIN' WRESTLER" argument dissolved a long time ago, but people will never, ever let it go. if brock wins his next ten fights, people will still not let it go.

if brock had stepped right into mma after his stellar college wrestling career, would have have gotten any of this 'roid freak' shit? or hell, kurt angle for that matter?

for the record, i too have nog subbing lesnar, but somewhere in the matchup i can see lesnar winning, possibly even by tko... but i won't have my money on it.

[OG&C_Inspector]

Originally Posted by smoogy

UFC was a very different place 11 years ago and there weren't a lot of guys with impressive records in the beginning, obviously. Nowadays some challengers rack up over half a dozen UFC wins before they get a shot

Ok Anderson Silva's second UFC fight was for the belt, and that wasn't 11 years ago. Yes he destroyed Leben who then was a viable canidate for title contention. So going on that strategy would mean the UFC needs to offer Dos Santos the winner of Lesner vs. Mir/Nog. I mean at the end of the day it's a buisness and their in it to make money and Randy/Lesner was a gold mine in the making. I personaly would prefer it if the UFC released a rankings chart and you had to compete slot by slot for advancement.