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[Fedorlei Gomipierre]

I'm sitting here watching UFC 55 and a heavyweight bout between Marcio Cruz vs. Kunihara and Big John just towers over both of them and is the one out of anybody on this DVD that I'd want on my side in a barfight.

When you read about Big John, you realize that he was not only a tactics and self defense trainer for the LAPD and a pretty tough cop, but he has vast training in BJJ under the Gracies(presently a Blackbelt) and I've read several times about the fact that he was interested in fighting for UFC rather than refing at UFC 2 but Rorion Gracie talked him out of it. He's a very intelligent and well studied individual and I think he had some serious potential to be a "great" MMA fighter. Oh, he's also 6'4 and about 240lbs and a pretty ripped guy too!

I just find this a very interesting "WHAT IF?", for the era had so few physically imposing/dominating fighters with technique and BJJ ability. Consider all of the "pioneers of UFC"(1-15 say): Royce, Shamrock, Severn, Kimo, Frye, Taktarov, Coleman, Abbott, Goodridge, Beneteau, Mo Smith, Mark Kerr, Harold Howard! I'm thinkin' Big John could take most if not all of these fighters, or at least put forth a thoroughly strong performance.

Just got to thinking about how vastly different the landscape of the early UFC would've been if Big John had chosen a different route. Would he have become a legend? Or am I giving Big John too much lure or cred???

I personally think that we'd have a very different impression of "UFC Legend" and names like Shamrock, Frye and Gracie may not be as well known if Big John had chosen to challenge them, rather than protect them.

End of day, there are few people who I think are as legitimately badass and scary tough as Big John McCarthey and IMO, I think he could have had one of the sickest careers as a fighter if he chose to pursue it rather than his legacy as a fabulous official.

Thoughts?

[chico76]

Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre

I'm sitting here watching UFC 55 and a heavyweight bout between Marcio Cruz vs. Kunihara and Big John just towers over both of them and is the one out of anybody on this DVD that I'd want on my side in a barfight.

When you read about Big John, you realize that he was not only a tactics and self defense trainer for the LAPD and a pretty tough cop, but he has vast training in BJJ under the Gracies(presently a Blackbelt) and I've read several times about the fact that he was interested in fighting for UFC rather than refing at UFC 2 but Rorion Gracie talked him out of it. He's a very intelligent and well studied individual and I think he had some serious potential to be a "great" MMA fighter. Oh, he's also 6'4 and about 240lbs and a pretty ripped guy too!

I just find this a very interesting "WHAT IF?", for the era had so few physically imposing/dominating fighters with technique and BJJ ability. Consider all of the "pioneers of UFC"(1-15 say): Royce, Shamrock, Severn, Kimo, Frye, Taktarov, Coleman, Abbott, Goodridge, Beneteau, Mo Smith, Mark Kerr, Harold Howard! I'm thinkin' Big John could take most if not all of these fighters, or at least put forth a thoroughly strong performance.

Just got to thinking about how vastly different the landscape of the early UFC would've been if Big John had chosen a different route. Would he have become a legend? Or am I giving Big John too much lure or cred???

I personally think that we'd have a very different impression of "UFC Legend" and names like Shamrock, Frye and Gracie may not be as well known if Big John had chosen to challenge them, rather than protect them.

End of day, there are few people who I think are as legitimately badass and scary tough as Big John McCarthey and IMO, I think he could have had one of the sickest careers as a fighter if he chose to pursue it rather than his legacy as a fabulous official.

Thoughts?

Its a really good thought, but I'm very glad he was a ref. UFC is as great as it is because of good refereeing. He has been a leader the way in legitimizing the sport with perfect timed stoppages and fighter safety. For the most part UFC has great refs (regional refs excluded)because of his example. I like Herb (pun intended), and Maz alot as refs. I think that it is largely because of Big Johns example. Now would he be as keen as he is if he had his pounded on a few of those years?

[willpunisher]

i wonder how much refs make.. is it by fights they ref or by a show?

one question though how old is big john??

[jagass]

It will be very good...Very interesting...lol

[unkoil]

UFC 1 would have ended differently.

[Bran]

any guesses at how he would do would be pure speculation. he may have great technique and size, but maybe his chin sucks, or maybe he can't handle the pressure of a fight.

[Legend]

Originally Posted by willpunisher

i wonder how much refs make.. is it by fights they ref or by a show?

It's goes by the show. If memory serves me correctly Big John has stated that before he retired and eventually came back he pulled in around 26,000 a year reffing. However, he is a part time ref compared to a guy like Herb Dean who John said makes an average of 50,000 plus a year.

[lwbrewer]

Big John should of done well as he was trained under Gracie. So he would of had the same advatage over the other fighters, and would of had a good understanding of what Royce was trying to do to stop/ delay him. He diffently should of changed the out come of the early years. I do agree his solid refing did help the sport. As not many people understoud the danges of the Gracie fighting style then, and a lot of limbs would of been broken before a fight was stopped.

[JakeMorgan]

If he would have chosen fighting over reffing, we would have never heard of him. This thread would not exist.