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[joeodd2]

Just a thought, but why don't we see more guys elbow from bottom guard position. I mean if a guy wants to use your chest as a pillow, then why not carve him a new forehead? I remember really seeing this put to use in the epic j-rock/warmachine fight. Recently Anderson used this to cut Sonnen. But truth be told, had he used the elbows from round 1, the fight could have been stopped by round 3. I just wonder if there's something that keeps them from doing this more often. Granted the skull isn't the softest thing you can hit with an elbow, but still, it's better than being held down round after round. I wonder if that opens the bottom guy up for guard passes or some other counter.......

[SinnerTim]

It's a good point. We saw Diego use them to great effect in his fight with Clay Guida. Florian used them well in his fight with Joe Lauzon as well.

[CtGreat]

I completely agree, Elbows from the bottom should be used more often by fighters; but that may also tire them out faster

[Fedorlei Gomipierre]

Now, my experience is only in training/sparring here, so I'm not going to say I'm a guru or anything here, but when I'm off my back(predominantly jits with some muaythai and a wrestling background), my main concern is wrist control and usually I'm just looking to sweep or maybe try and climb up for an arm.

I've never really looked to unleash elbows off my back because I'm too concerned with keeping it grappling and my main concern would be the possibilities that with his hands and wrists free he'll be able to push off and try and break my guard and look to secure a mount or pass to half at least by getting better posture since he can push off and garner a better position. Again, I'm mostly jits and don't really get hit too much, but that'd be my take on maybe why it's not used too prevalently.

[Otomosix]

My two cents...

An elbow from bottom guard is best done while your opponent is relatively stationary (i.e. not posturing up or actively maneuvering). Anderson Silva uses bottom guard elbows probably the best of anyone because his long legs and lean frame allow him to lock up guys in a body triangle (thus, forcing them to be stationary). Another reason why a body triangle w/ elbows is so effective is because you are forcing an opponent to be stationary at a lower angle (relative to each other's chest level). Thus, downward elbows in this position have more force due to the extra wind-up distance. Unfortunately, not everyone can pull off a body triangle.

That all being said, aside from body triangle w/ elbows, elbows from bottom guard are not that easy for a few reasons:
1) Most opponents on top will lean forward to minimize the impact of elbows.
2) Many fighters don't have the training/experience to throw snap elbow strikes (more like dull massage poundings).
3) One of the worst things you can do while pulling guard is to not control your opponent's head (thus letting him posture up and/or pass your guard.

[joeodd2]

Great points. Like everything in MMA it's risk/reward I guess. But seriously. Any other ideas on how to defeat LNP from your back?

[Fedorlei Gomipierre]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

Great points. Like everything in MMA it's risk/reward I guess. But seriously. Any other ideas on how to defeat LNP from your back?

I gotta go with a sweep or an an armbar personally. Some of the smaller fighters I train with are crazy flexible and utilize some awesome rubberguard stuff to really pindown the top fighter and get a good amount of control off the back.

[DanC]

I think as a couple of the guys have said, the most effective way to protect yourself from the bottom is to control the risk and the head. I think elbows are only really effective if the opponent is guard and being controlled well. If they are free to move around then could quite easily counter your elbow attacks with a break for a better position

[tucker50]

Well I think the main reason we don't see more elbows from the bottom is because you can't really control the guy on top of you if you are throwing elbows. It gives them a chance to posture up and rain down much harder blows than you could possibly return from the bottom. That is actually a good way to stop LNP but unfortunately it just makes the guy on top more dangerous.
The best way to really stop LNP is really just with good jits. If a guy is trying to spend time in your guard it gives you plenty of time to set up sweeps and subs. There are way to many guys in the UFC that just do not have decent jiu jitsu and that lets alot of guys have an easy time stay on top. There are so many fighters that think jits is subs, and whenever they are on their back, they tie up or throw their legs up for triangles. Even some guys with good jiu jitsu do this. Guys like Mir, Kendall, Anderson and others like to just work for subs, not sweeps, even if they are getting beaten up. However, look at guys like the Nogs and they get sweeps from the bottom all the time. Look at the Couture and Brilz fights, the swept good wrestlers over and over from half guard. Couture even says he likes to stay in half guard because he feels safe but Nog swept him over and over again.
If you have a good, smart bottom game then LNP will not work on you. If your a guy like AJ, Daley or any of those guys who just work on sub defense and trying to stand up, you will be trapped on your back all day.
The other point worth mentioning is the judging. If simply being on top stops winning you rounds, especially when the guy on the bottom is more active, people will stop the LNP.

[joeodd2]

Originally Posted by tucker50

Well I think the main reason we don't see more elbows from the bottom is because you can't really control the guy on top of you if you are throwing elbows. It gives them a chance to posture up and rain down much harder blows than you could possibly return from the bottom. That is actually a good way to stop LNP but unfortunately it just makes the guy on top more dangerous.
The best way to really stop LNP is really just with good jits. If a guy is trying to spend time in your guard it gives you plenty of time to set up sweeps and subs. There are way to many guys in the UFC that just do not have decent jiu jitsu and that lets alot of guys have an easy time stay on top. There are so many fighters that think jits is subs, and whenever they are on their back, they tie up or throw their legs up for triangles. Even some guys with good jiu jitsu do this. Guys like Mir, Kendall, Anderson and others like to just work for subs, not sweeps, even if they are getting beaten up. However, look at guys like the Nogs and they get sweeps from the bottom all the time. Look at the Couture and Brilz fights, the swept good wrestlers over and over from half guard. Couture even says he likes to stay in half guard because he feels safe but Nog swept him over and over again.
If you have a good, smart bottom game then LNP will not work on you. If your a guy like AJ, Daley or any of those guys who just work on sub defense and trying to stand up, you will be trapped on your back all day.
The other point worth mentioning is the judging. If simply being on top stops winning you rounds, especially when the guy on the bottom is more active, people will stop the LNP.

Absolutely true! The Nogerias have the best sweeps in MMA, good call on the Brilz fight. I'm in the minority that had Nog winning that fight....

Of course this is MMA right? I think a healthy dose of elbows from the bottom mixed in with sweeps and sub attempts could be enough to kill LNP