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[snakebite]

Originally Posted by apardo

I agree to this completely, we have to understand that MMA is not only striking and thats the beauty of it, that even though it is exciting, we dont get to see only striking we get to see the excitement that other disciplines bring forth to the table of an actual fight. How even though you could be out boxed or out striked you can take it to the ground and dominate (i.e silva vs sonnen or toney vs couture). This IMO is what MMA should be about. Not about just standing toe to toe boxing each other out or kicking, its about how to utilize all the tools you poses.

If all I wanted to do is watch striking I would stick to K-1 or Boxing

I understand that but why is it ok for a wrestler to just constantly try and take someone down and hold them there non stop! (see nick lentz last fight). I just think its bullshit you can win fights by holding someone down for 15 mins. Can you win a fight if you run away from a wrestler for 15 mins and keep them standing?

[claycollett3]

I too love a good striking war. However, wrestlers prob make up the bulk of the fighting population, making it harder to find a great striker that can wrestle or has formidable TDD. the sport is evolving so much that instead of karate lessons, young kids are taking MMA classes. This is going to make the next ten years very very exciting. Directing my attention now to the Lay 'n Pray stylists, I honestly believe the UFC needs to adopt some of Pride's Yellow card style of penalty. Maybe getting a warning card before they deduct from your purse. In addition, fighters must make more money for this to be ethical. If a fighter is making 2k to fight, and gets 10% taken away, that takes that much more food off the table (200 bucks dosent seem like much, but it can make the all the difference). They need to get paid more for what they do. That was kinda a few posts in one but I think many will agree.

[Xtremo]

Originally Posted by The8thPlague

He fought his Clone? How did I miss that!??!
That must've been a Slugfest! Who won?

Oh haha! my bad. i meant Nelson, good catch, although it was pretty noticable...

Originally Posted by snakebite

I understand that but why is it ok for a wrestler to just constantly try and take someone down and hold them there non stop! (see nick lentz last fight). I just think its bullshit you can win fights by holding someone down for 15 mins. Can you win a fight if you run away from a wrestler for 15 mins and keep them standing?

Maynard doesn't finish because he calmly picks his shots on the ground, he has no problem going to a UD as long as he knows he wins each round...same thing goes for Lentz and Fitch...
I do agree with you that these fighters should work extensively on their submissions because the shots they land are not exciting to the fans, they rarely do damage...Sonnen at least whoops ass when he is on top...they should seriously learn from him...

GSP is the only one that can finish a fight when it goes to the ground, in the Alves fight, he wasn't fighting 100% for most of the fight...and in the Hardy fight, he got Hardy in a nasty armbar and kimura, but Hardy never gave up and he would be lying if he said his arm did not feel like it was going to dislocate...GSP knows how to finish, but recently, he just didn't.

[McTee]

Originally Posted by TapOut27

Rashad isn't a striker

Rashad's KOs/TKOs of Chuck Liddell, Forrest Griffin and Sean Salmon say otherwise.

Of Rashad's 15 wins, 5 are by KO/TKO, and 1 by Submission (punches). While his wrestling is what got him through the Thiago Silva and Rampage fights, we didn't see much wrestling from him for quite a while before that.

More striker vs. striker fights:

Rich Franklin vs. Chuck Liddell
Thiago Silva vs. Lyoto Machida
Thiago Silva vs. Houston Alexander
Sam Stout vs. Jeremy Stephens
Leben vs. Akiyama (12 fights in K-1 says he's a striker)
Leben vs. Bisping
Dennis Siver vs. Spencer Fisher
Dong Hyun Kim vs. Amir Sadollah
Buentello vs. Struve
Rory McDonald vs. Condit was on the feet quite a bit.
Wanderlei vs. Franklin
Wanderlei vs. Chuck
Wanderlei vs. Bisping
Wanderlei vs. Rampage
Daley vs. Kampmann
Kampmann vs. Condit
Patrick Cote vs. Belcher
Cote vs. Leben (a while ago, I know)
Belcher vs. Akiyama
Dos Santos vs. Yvel

lots more....

Wrestling, being such a strong base, has produced a ton of successful MMA fighters. Striking is such a high risk-high reward gameplan that there are much less guys that go on long undefeated streaks as pure strikers.

There are more striker vs. striker matches than there are wrestler vs. wrestler matchups. The wrestlers tend to get matched up with strikers or BJJ fighters. Also, not a ton of BJJ vs. BJJ specialists. Lots of guys that know BJJ fight each other, but not very many matchups that BJJ is by far the strength of both fighters.

[DarkMage]

Originally Posted by The8thPlague

He fought his Clone? How did I miss that!??!
That must've been a Slugfest! Who won?

Na, it was easy. Just like in Zelda 2; just crouch down in the corner and keep tagging away.

[tinkerskippy]

Originally Posted by apardo

I agree to this completely, we have to understand that MMA is not only striking and thats the beauty of it, that even though it is exciting, we dont get to see only striking we get to see the excitement that other disciplines bring forth to the table of an actual fight. How even though you could be out boxed or out striked you can take it to the ground and dominate (i.e silva vs sonnen or toney vs couture). This IMO is what MMA should be about. Not about just standing toe to toe boxing each other out or kicking, its about how to utilize all the tools you poses.

If all I wanted to do is watch striking I would stick to K-1 or Boxing

Blah blah blah. ... Nice job on your generic response that everyone knows verbatim. Shame you didn't bring any original thought to the table.

My favorite part was when you brilliantly pointed out that MMA is not just about striking. Fuck I damn near dropped my latte.

[MrSpanky]

They just made Thiago Alves vs John Howard. I'd say they're both strikers. I see what you're saying though but I think sometimes its just that the "wrestler" is considered that because thats what he's known for. For example Roy Nelson is a "wrestler" but he could also be considered a striker considering he's knocked out Stefan Struve and Brendan Schaub. Same goes with Nate Diaz, he was on his feet pretty much the whole fight with Davis.

[One-Way]

I hear boxing and K-1 do the occasional striker - striker battle!

My feelings are that there are very few bad fights. I could care less if it is a ten second KO, a 3-5 round toe-toe, or a dominant wrestler laying on his opponent.

I am getting the impression as of late that people judge a fight based on the finish. Each to their own but I dont care who is fighting who with what style. I LOVE FIGHTS!!!!

[Otomosix]

Originally Posted by tinkerskippy

Blah blah blah. ... Nice job on your generic response that everyone knows verbatim. Shame you didn't bring any original thought to the table.

My favorite part was when you brilliantly pointed out that MMA is not just about striking. Fuck I damn near dropped my latte.

Ouch.

But here's a (real) thought... It's been my experience that to become an effective striker (especially kicking) takes well over a year for most people (in some cases, many years). To become an effective grappler, takes 6 months.

Note: I'm not talking about becoming a master striker or master grappler. I'm talking run-of-the-mill average.

[apardo]

Originally Posted by tinkerskippy

Blah blah blah. ... Nice job on your generic response that everyone knows verbatim. Shame you didn't bring any original thought to the table.

My favorite part was when you brilliantly pointed out that MMA is not just about striking. Fuck I damn near dropped my latte.

cool story bro, trolling can be fun sometimes.

in response to Snakebite, I agree LnP is BS and a half, although there are some wrestlers who at least try to finish fights rather than let the clock run out, in this sense I think the yellow card is the answer to it.

Note: Not everyone can be finished either, look at BJ Penn, only two of his losses have been called, both by wrestlers ironically