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[TheRedeemer]

I know he's champion. But just like the former champion machida... he revived a title shot after fighting a plethora of outmatched opponents. And before you say ryan bader is amazinggg. Get real. Now as for the title shot itself. Machida had to roll through evans. But jones was luckily enough to get the same shogun who was dominated by griffin and almost lost to coleman. Let's be honest. Matt hammil could have won the title last night

No offense to jones. He is a phenom and even though I love shogun.. I pretty much agreed with everyone else and thought he'd beat shogun. I do think jones will beat evans next. But I do not think he could beat the likes of rampage or machida. He just matches up bad with them. Hell, I even think forrest would be a bad matchup for jones

Time will tell for our new champion.. but Im on an island by myself in thinking that jones still hasn't proved himself.

[CHAEL fan]

Originally Posted by TheRedeemer

I know he's champion. But just like the former champion machida... he revived a title shot after fighting a plethora of outmatched opponents. And before you say ryan bader is amazinggg. Get real. Now as for the title shot itself. Machida had to roll through evans. But jones was luckily enough to get the same shogun who was dominated by griffin and almost lost to coleman. Let's be honest. Matt hammil could have won the title last night

No offense to jones. He is a phenom and even though I love shogun.. I pretty much agreed with everyone else and thought he'd beat shogun. I do think jones will beat evans next. But I do not think he could beat the likes of rampage or machida. He just matches up bad with them. Hell, I even think forrest would be a bad matchup for jones

Time will tell for our new champion.. but Im on an island by myself in thinking that jones still hasn't proved himself.

Horrible post.

[BBG]

Honestly this is the last thread that I would have ever expected after last nights spectacle. But it takes all kinds I guess.

[beau420]

Forrest isn't that big...I think Jones would man handle him. Same with everyone else you listed. Rashad might be his toughest fight.

Rampage is too immobile...I think Jones would pick at him for a round or two...then get Rampage down and Rampage would be like a turtle on his back.

Machida...maybe...he can move in and out real quick, which is what you have to do when you are fighting a guy who has the longest reach in the UFC....I donno. We need to see how confident Machida is....if he can come back from that last fight. I think he is too small.

Jones hasn't proved himself to me until he can escape a real close submission, get off his back if he is pinned on the ground and wins a fight after losing one round badly.

But for all we know....he could still be the man even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me. Maybe he is just that good....maybe we won't get to see him prove himself for a while.

I think he might go a year without overcoming adversity....he might not need to....he might just man handle everyone for a while.

I was really impressed and right now....I see Jones as the next Anderson or GSP of his division even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me....by that I mean overcoming adversity.

[Diegonightmare]

Congrats Redeemer. You've earned your black belt in Internet postery with this offering. It's an old, proven formula: the guy who posts the most outrageous, most controversial, most inane thing imaginable - as long as he does it with a straight face and betrays no sense of realizing the ridiculousness of what he is saying - is the guy who wins.

Bravo. Somewhere Jonathan Snowden is smiling right now.

[FFFRpickup]

Originally Posted by beau420

Forrest isn't that big...I think Jones would man handle him. Same with everyone else you listed. Rashad might be his toughest fight.

Rampage is too immobile...I think Jones would pick at him for a round or two...then get Rampage down and Rampage would be like a turtle on his back.

Machida...maybe...he can move in and out real quick, which is what you have to do when you are fighting a guy who has the longest reach in the UFC....I donno. We need to see how confident Machida is....if he can come back from that last fight. I think he is too small.

Jones hasn't proved himself to me until he can escape a real close submission, get off his back if he is pinned on the ground and wins a fight after losing one round badly.

But for all we know....he could still be the man even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me. Maybe he is just that good....maybe we won't get to see him prove himself for a while.

I think he might go a year without overcoming adversity....he might not need to....he might just man handle everyone for a while.

I was really impressed and right now....I see Jones as the next Anderson or GSP of his division even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me....by that I mean overcoming adversity.

gottta tip you hat to Jones. He manhandled Shogun.
That being said I believe Shogun was totally off his game. The Long layoff hurt him with his timing and I believe he only threw one leg kick. something was terribly off. I'm sure Jones' reach threw off Shogun's timing but that was a clinic. I mean, Shogun does not get intimidated. He has always had killer instict. Uberreem..Rampage..Machida. Shogun didn't look himself in there. He didn't pull the trigger. Jones got off first the whole night. Jones gets another Fighter coming off a long layoff in Rashad. Jones seems unstoppable on the ground. Time will tell. But at this rate Jones will be unstoppable with time. That's a scary thought.

[mattsop]

I think one problem is that MMA seems to be in a transitional period. I mean the people you had to beat just a few years ago to "prove yourself" are now on there way out of the game or starting to lose, i.e. Fedor, Cro Cop, Liddell, Coleman, Couture, etc...

So this leaves us with either unproven highly ranked fighters or new up and coming fighters. Who does Jones need to beat that is a proven fighter themselves? Rampage? Dan Henderson?

[Diegonightmare]

I think folks that are saying Shogun looked bad last night (and that doesn't count Redeemer, because his initial post in this thread wasn't meant for this space-time continuum but for bizarro world) are underestimating the "transcendent champion" effect.

Great champions make very good, even fantastic, fighters, look VERY average - and they do it on a routine basis. Think GSP. Jose Aldo. Fedor Emelianenko (before he got old and continued to fight 300-pound young prospects). Matt Hughes, in his day. BJ Penn at LW. Anderson Silva, bigtime. Great champions make virtually everyone look really bad.

As if more argumentation was needed, there's plenty of corroborating evidence. How many guys absolutely tool The Janitor the way Jones did? How many guys outmuscle Matt Hamill and just make him look like a kid brother? How many guys just walk right through Brandon Vera like that? How many guys make Ryan Bader look like a 3rd-week gym guy facing the club champion? That's right - nobody does that.

The fact that Bones has faced this steady progression of higher and higher caliber fighters - and made every one of them look very silly in a way that virtually nobody has done to ANY ONE of them - adds plenty of confidence to the diagnosis that it wasn't so much that Shogun was bad last night, it's that Jones is so great he made him look bad. Huge distinction.

[pimpslappd]

jon jones destroyed shogun like he has been every other fight. It sucks when people make every excuse in the book for there favorite fighter and discredit jones performance. I THOUGHT he did enough to prove to the doubters last night that hes the real deal but well wait for him to dismantle rashad but then itll be because of rashads long layoff??

[singinkangaroooo]

Originally Posted by beau420

But for all we know....he could still be the man even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me. Maybe he is just that good....maybe we won't get to see him prove himself for a while.

I think he might go a year without overcoming adversity....he might not need to....he might just man handle everyone for a while.

I was really impressed and right now....I see Jones as the next Anderson or GSP of his division even if he hasn't proved himself to you or me....by that I mean overcoming adversity.

^ ^ ^ ^ this

i think Jones is the most naturally talented fighter to walk in the octagon and whether or not he proves it to us doesnt negate the fact that its there anyway... i think with the current group of talent at the top i dont think any of them will beat him... whether or not he deserved the shot isnt the champion supposed to be the best in the division.. and if you beat the best in your division doesnt that mean you have proved something?? out of anyone though i feel Rampage has the best style to beat him because he is heavy handed and hard to take down.. but lack of speed would definitly hurt..

Lets see so 2 and 1/2 years ago we had the LHW title picture without Jones in the UFC.. now he is the champion... i think we are just going to have to wait for the new crop of MMA to develop and we get more natural freaks that are disciplined and will tear shit up... imo it GSP who was the first of this kind, A.Silva is just a freak from the old times, now Bones is the next dominant champion of this kind that might not have to break a sweat to win.. (he never looked like he had any sense of urgency or finishing last night so if he gets one it would be scary) i feel Cain is borderline in this group depending on his fight with JDS

Originally Posted by FFFRpickup

That being said I believe Shogun was totally off his game. The Long layoff hurt him with his timing and I believe he only threw one leg kick. something was terribly off. I'm sure Jones' reach threw off Shogun's timing but that was a clinic.

you know before the fight i was thinking that leg kicks were going to be the key to this victory and early in the fight i was asking y Shogun wasnt throwing them.. but then Bones took him down and i saw y... he threw that leg kick in what the end of the 2nd or early 3rd and got taken down for it.. i think he should train kicking wrestlers then maybe well see a different champion