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[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

I did say "sort of" which and explained that he defended the legitmacy of HRT in MMA. If you listen to the interview, he did seem to defend Nate and Chael regarding the legit need for the therapy. He did point out that Nate should have tested his levels well before the fight. At worst, Nate should have pulled out of the fight a week or two before, just to be safe. He played a dangerous game, and might have lost by inches. I did hear that his levels were normal the day of the fight, but I'd have to dig around to confirm that for sure. Bottom line, is that if his levels were normal the day of the fight, it stands to reason that he wasn't too far off the mark when he failed his medicals. Perhaps not far enough to actually have any significant impact on the fight. Personally I think it would have had zero impact on whether or not he one or lost against Story. Just one of those technical things in my view. STERIODS is a whole nother beast and debate as to whether or not he abused PEDs in the past. Personally I'd be amazed if half the fighters abuse PEDs on purpose, they might just take something from GNC and hope for the best, because they don't know where to go or can't afford to have their supplements tested.

I think Bas Rutten is a bit behind the times when it comes to diet and training. These days most MMA fighters are using high performance suppliments to push their bodies harder than fighters in the past. The training tears up their bodies, there's no debate about that. I personally think, and I believe most fighters feel the same way. That using something to recover from an injury, should be allowed. The UFC should also have classes on safe and legal ways fighters can recover from intense training, making it less tempting for them to take PEDs to recover. Hell they had a seminar on sexual harassment. The UFC should take the lead and provide resources like that to fighters, Meathead had an excellent suggestion last week on inside MMA. He spoke of a hotline that NFL players could call to get info on supplement ingredients. Now that's something the UFC could put in place next week if they wanted to. Right now the UFC asks for so much from fighters in terms of performance, it seems to be more of a "just dont get caught" mentality rather than educating fighters on how to train and take care of their bodies the right way.

how does saying he was completely wrong mean sort of defending him?

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

I did say "sort of" which and explained that he defended the legitmacy of HRT in MMA. If you listen to the interview, he did seem to defend Nate and Chael regarding the legit need for the therapy. He did point out that Nate should have tested his levels well before the fight. At worst, Nate should have pulled out of the fight a week or two before, just to be safe. He played a dangerous game, and might have lost by inches. I did hear that his levels were normal the day of the fight, but I'd have to dig around to confirm that for sure. Bottom line, is that if his levels were normal the day of the fight, it stands to reason that he wasn't too far off the mark when he failed his medicals. Perhaps not far enough to actually have any significant impact on the fight. Personally I think it would have had zero impact on whether or not he one or lost against Story. Just one of those technical things in my view. STERIODS is a whole nother beast and debate as to whether or not he abused PEDs in the past. Personally I'd be amazed if half the fighters abuse PEDs on purpose, they might just take something from GNC and hope for the best, because they don't know where to go or can't afford to have their supplements tested.

I think Bas Rutten is a bit behind the times when it comes to diet and training. These days most MMA fighters are using high performance suppliments to push their bodies harder than fighters in the past. The training tears up their bodies, there's no debate about that. I personally think, and I believe most fighters feel the same way. That using something to recover from an injury, should be allowed. The UFC should also have classes on safe and legal ways fighters can recover from intense training, making it less tempting for them to take PEDs to recover. Hell they had a seminar on sexual harassment. The UFC should take the lead and provide resources like that to fighters, Meathead had an excellent suggestion last week on inside MMA. He spoke of a hotline that NFL players could call to get info on supplement ingredients. Now that's something the UFC could put in place next week if they wanted to. Right now the UFC asks for so much from fighters in terms of performance, it seems to be more of a "just dont get caught" mentality rather than educating fighters on how to train and take care of their bodies the right way.

He didn't defend Nate or Chael at all. He defended the medical use of HRT. Not once did he say anything about them getting a "bum rap." If anything he made it clear that he thought Nate was in the wrong, for how he and his doctor handled the situation.

Nate's levels weren't "normal" the day of the fight, they were "within range". Yet he and his attorney wouldn't specify what his exact levels were, to actually see if his levels were within who's range. Added on to that, different people have a different opinion of what exactly the "range" is. This was all from the interview he did on MMA Hour, the Tuesday after everything happened. But, to my point... The type of "range" he was being tested for, and would have been legally allowed to fight with, are still above the levels of the average person.

Regardless of how off his levels were on fight day, they were still high during his training camp, at least near the end of it. He still benefited from all the extra testosterone while getting ready for the fight. He still gained a physical advantage in that regards. Fighters don't use them so their levels are high for the fight, to fight better. They know full well they are getting tested before and after the fight. The whole point of using steroids is to use them in preparation for the fight; improving their strength, speed and conditioning, from working out hard before the fight. So he certainly would have had an advantage in the Story fight, verses having truly normal levels his entire camp.

They also do have a seminar, discussing steroids. If the fighters don't know, or have the info, on how to deal with injuries or hard training recovery, then they are freaking morons. They are professional athletes, not some random person at a small local gym. It's their business to get educated about everything health and rule related. Plus there's the internet. If they don't know something, or know someone who knows something, they can always look it up themselves. If they don't know what's in a supplement mix, then they shouldn't take it. Find something that lists all it's contents. That's their problem, not the promotion's.

[Mac]

I am no expert on this but from what I've read it seems to me that HRT is mostly for kids with health problems. I just don't understand how so many elite athletes could be in such a need of it. It doesn't seem logical to me but as I said, I am no expert.

[Leucoethiops]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

And that's a shame, because if you look at the 2, and I only count 2 instances where Nate had been in trouble. The first one very well could have been a supplement or combination of supplements he took from GNC or some other mainstream supplement store.

First off, Nandrolone was banned in the 90's, like, a full decade before Nate tested positive for it, so the likelihood of it being found in mainstream supplements would be pretty damn slim. Secondly, the oral bioavailability of nandrolone is nonexistent. If you eat it, your stomach destroys it and it yields no benefit; it has to be taken via intramuscular injection to work. You could actually eat copious amounts of Nandrolone and not test positive for it.

That being said, the pro-hormone precursor to nandrolone was being sold regularly, and legally, when Nate tested positive for it, but pro-hormones were always sold as a standalone product, or in a stack with another pro-hormone (the latter would have little to no androgenic properties to mitigate side effects).

Anyone saying "I didn't know it was in my supplement", or "I didn't know that my liver would enzymatically convert that to a steroid", or "I didn't know what was in that needle I stuck in my bum.", or "I didn't know it was banned" is most likely a liar, or in rare instances, truly ignorant; and ignorance of the law is not a valid reason for breaking it.

At the end of the day, Nate is a professional, and his dealing with the PSAC and his HRT, were decidedly unprofessional, and put a lot of people in a bind just before the show. That's why he's looking for work.

[the_dark_angel_4ever]

Originally Posted by Leucoethiops

First off, Nandrolone was banned in the 90's, like, a full decade before Nate tested positive for it, so the likelihood of it being found in mainstream supplements would be pretty damn slim. Secondly, the oral bioavailability of nandrolone is nonexistent. If you eat it, your stomach destroys it and it yields no benefit; it has to be taken via intramuscular injection to work. You could actually eat copious amounts of Nandrolone and not test positive for it.

That being said, the pro-hormone precursor to nandrolone was being sold regularly, and legally, when Nate tested positive for it, but pro-hormones were always sold as a standalone product, or in a stack with another pro-hormone (the latter would have little to no androgenic properties to mitigate side effects).

Anyone saying "I didn't know it was in my supplement", or "I didn't know that my liver would enzymatically convert that to a steroid", or "I didn't know what was in that needle I stuck in my bum.", or "I didn't know it was banned" is most likely a liar, or in rare instances, truly ignorant; and ignorance of the law is not a valid reason for breaking it.

At the end of the day, Nate is a professional, and his dealing with the PSAC and his HRT, were decidedly unprofessional, and put a lot of people in a bind just before the show. That's why he's looking for work.

Excellent post.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by Mac

The difference is the other threads were presented as what the fighter was actually saying, you presented this a defense for Nate in a roundabout way. I didn't watch the show but it seems to me he was pointing out what HRT is about and wasn't out to defend Nate but your title indicates otherwise. It seems to me you are putting words in Hallman's mouth.

look at the link i posted on the first page, he is completely putting words in hallman's mouth and i hate hallman so im just just kissing his ass.

[CRisCO]

hallman is a frequent PED user himself.


I could easily see him needing TRT from all the years of abuse