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[Rise]

Originally Posted by Pasha K

It is almost impossible that a person is going to change. People do not change. If they did something one time, most likely sooner or later they will do it again.

That's a pretty narrow and uninformed view. Plenty of people change and evolve as human being beings. I could cite numerous easily found examples but not going to but you are just flat out wrong.



As for the debate the problem really comes with minimum and maximum sentences. There needs to be much more leeway with what judges can sentence a person to serve. They need to also get rid of the early release part of things this should be the exception for stellar cases of prisoners reforming not the rule where everyone gets out early. Also while I think the 3 strikes system can be a little harsh depending on circumstances I do really think that repeat offenders should be dealt with on harsher basis then they currently are.

[BonesKnows]

im not sure if they do this in the states or not, but here in canda while you are in jail/prison (anything 6 months less a day is just reagular jail) you are forced to take classes (ex. wood working) so you are better suited to succeed in the community upon your release.

Ive been around this stuff my entire life, my dad is a criminal defense lawyer her in Windsor and i can say first hand that people do change. Ive seen countless people fuck their lives up by commiting a crime and once they are sentenced and released they are a completely different person. Are there people who reoffend? of course, but in certain situations living in jail and/or prison is better then not living in jail for some of these people. While in jail they are given food, shower, bed, heat, which for most criminals is more than they have in their real life so they will reoffend (sometimes more seriously than before) to get all of those things back.

[Sakara=Excitement]

So I should of been given a mandatory life sentence for my crime?

[MIZjitsZOU]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

So I should of been given a mandatory life sentence for my crime?

Wait a second...you have been arrested? I am just kidding. Obviously people can change. Sak is living proof of that. I have done some dumb stuff in my time.

I do think if someone is convicted of true pedophilia, preying on kids, is caught in the act then they should get a life sentence or castration.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by MIZjitsZOU

Wait a second...you have been arrested? I am just kidding. Obviously people can change. Sak is living proof of that. I have done some dumb stuff in my time.

I do think if someone is convicted of true pedophilia, preying on kids, is caught in the act then they should get a life sentence or castration.

Yeah it was in reference to the OP's assertion that serious violent crimes should get mandatory life sentences.

I would ask what is the mythical line that constitutes serious violent crimes from just violent crimes. Who decides that? "Well 4 bones were broken in the assault which means it's not serious enough."

That's a slippery slope to be playing on.

I changed, so if just one person in the history of prison changed, you can't say with 100 percent certainty that no one can change.

It's so frustrating the lack of education the general public have when it comes to convicted felons. The recidivism rate in the state of Texas stays generally around 75-80 percent. Which means statistically 20-25 percent of convicted felons DO NOT commit another crime. But those guys shouldn't of been given that second chance is what I'm gathering.

It's just....sad really.

Does anyone realize that prisons in the state of Texas offer almost no rehabilitation for inmates? No job or skills training that amounts to anything. What do you want these guys to do? I committed my crime in 2001. I was convicted and told I had to do 5 years, that was my punishment and I did it. But 12 years later I still can't rent an apartment. Thank God I've had emotional and financial support. So what is the point of the prison sentence when no rehabilitation is offer, no skills training, no counseling, and then once I get out, I have to forever have a mark on my back? How does that benefit society?

[TheKidInside]

that was my point about European countries (north) and their rehab programs in prisons.

Anyone listening to JRE knows the truth about prisons (if you didn't know it before).

[Cat--Smasher]

The problem with capital punishment is our justice systems are flawed. Our justice systems are filled with systemic racism, corruption and now greed.

You cannot have a system which has proven to be flawed allowed to put a person to death. Numerous innocent people have been convicted for crimes, many for serious crimes. Numerous people have been proven innocent years later (due to advances in technology and DNA) who were convicted of violent crimes, rapes and murders. It is estimated with confidence about 8 innocent people have been put to death through capital punishment in the USA (another 30 something cases are suspicious, but not 100% certain).

If one person is wrongfully executed by the state that state has failed its people. Yeah, yeah, people will say one person wrongfully executed is the cost of being safe ... but it has been proven time and time again, punishment (even the death penalty) is not a strong deterrent against crime.

Canada does not have capital punishment; a good example of why we should not have capital punishment was the case of David Milgaard. Milgaard was wrongfully convicted of rape and murder of a young nurse in Sask., numerous witnesses and police testified against him and he was sentenced to life (as we do not have a death sentence). Milgaard was proven innocent after spending over 20 years in jail. DNA proved his innocence. [Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years references this case]


And I fully agree with your concerns about the justice system and rehabilitation Sak. A prison which does not offer any way of reform or rehabilitation is just creating life long criminals - jail that is a school for criminals. The negative stigma that is still following you around after 12 years is brutal. Can you not get a pardon in Texas?

How is someone who made a mistake supposed to become a productive member of society after spending a hand full of years in prison with no rehabilitation or reform efforts and then having the negative stigma attached to a criminal record ever supposed to prove themselves and make positive changes?

Sad thing is our justice system in Canada has traditionally been much more community based and encouraged the ideals of rehabilitation until recently. Our current Conservative government has been mumbling about getting tougher on crime, increasing drug crimes, increasing mandatory sentences. The Texas govt, who has recently been making changes for the more positive contacted our govt and told them it was more expensive and less productive to go more punitive and based on punishment.. Unfortunately, that is not what our Prime Minister wanted to hear and disregarded the advice.

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

im not sure if they do this in the states or not, but here in canda while you are in jail/prison (anything 6 months less a day is just reagular jail) you are forced to take classes (ex. wood working) so you are better suited to succeed in the community upon your release.

It is actually 2 years less a day is served in 'Provincial Jail' and a sentence over two years is served in a 'Federal Prision'.



And for those who call for castration of sex offenders..... Castrated sexual offenders are shown to have a similar recivitism rate as non castrated convicted sexual offenders. So as satisfying as it might be to see the fucker get his balls cut off.. it likely wont change the flaw in his brain. Similar to rape, castration could be used as a punishment but not to lessen the chances of re offending as most rapes are more about the domination and act than the sexual gratification (violent non date rape style rapes).

[SimpleJack]

Not all correctional systems are that way.

In Indiana, there are programs upon programs that grant "good-time" and allow for reduction in term when the offender takes advantage of them. Education and vocational training are readily available. The problem is that the offender himself/herself must take advantage of these programs as well as personal responsibility. It's no different than the outside in that area.

Re-acclimation is tough. No one wants to hire a felon for reasons stretching from fear to liability. It's just a fact of life. Most felons are relegated (obviously by their own hand due to taking part in an illegal act and being prosecuted) to manual labor and lower skilled positions.

I think S=E inflated Texas's recidivism numbers and they have been on the decline since 2008 at a steady and impressive pace.

[mma #1 fan]

Originally Posted by Y2JUBAE

I think it would depend on the crime. Murder, rape, child molestation, it wouldn't matter to me if someone was under 18.

I do know someone who committed an armed robbery, he did change, however, he had no intentions of actually using the gun... I can see an argument for that if nobody was harmed or something. The violent crime thing would also depend on the severity of the victim's injuries. I mean, if a victim has brain damage or something that would effect his or her life for the rest of his or her life, that's pretty close to murder.
What I mean by "serious violent crimes" would be along the lines of beating someone bad enough that they could have died, that the only reason they are alive is pure luck. Just like with armed robbery or any type of weapons charge. A lot of people get off by pure luck that the person survived, so I guess "attempted murder" or something would fall in those lines.

I do think people go down the wrong road sometimes. I did when I was 17, however, I never harmed anyone innocent, but I did do some stupid things.

Glad to hear you changed. I'm betting the real change was when you did the crimes, you were probably a good person all along who just got a case of the stupid. I could be wrong, maybe people who murder or rape can change, but if they can change to become a good person, then they should also understand and accept that they should not be allowed back into society. Their victims will never get that chance to go back to who they were, especially the dead ones.

I know what you mean about having a kid too man. I used to do criminal defense work and honestly, I never thought once about it. I was proud that I worked on cases and won when the person was guilty as sin. I remember a case of a guy with a DUI 3rd and he showed up for his trial drunk. We won. I saw it as we were smarter. I can't do that stuff anymore now that I have a kid. My conscience just makes me think (what if the victim was my baby)... and I just feel sick and angry thinking about helping someone who will more than likely commit the same crime again.

My child is why I have this zero tolerance type attitude today. I see the pure innocence in her and the thought of someone harming her just is too much to bare.

Well I used to rob old ladies on or around the first of the month because I could was not till I was older that I ever felt bad.
I beat a guy up so bad once he still wears glasses to this day all he did was say your dad is a fag. (he was shit he was a drag queen)
I fucked the Preachers daughter in the ass.
i used to raid weed crops knowing i be ok and no cops would be called.

i was a very bad person i just changed is all

[MIZjitsZOU]

Originally Posted by mma #1 fan

Well I used to rob old ladies on or around the first of the month because I could was not till I was older that I ever felt bad.
I beat a guy up so bad once he still wears glasses to this day all he did was say your dad is a fag. (he was shit he was a drag queen)
I fucked the Preachers daughter in the ass.
i used to raid weed crops knowing i be ok and no cops would be called.

i was a very bad person i just changed is all

This is why you (we) need a thread called, "random musings by mma#1fan". You could tell one story a day/week and I would be happy.