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[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by Mac

As far as the Hanley/Cantu thing I honestly can't remember where i saw it, I have a lot of down time at work so I'm constantly on the net. It may have been on Yahoo, but I can't be sure, I will try to find it.

As far as Delgado/Wright, I wasn't calling you out on that, I was calling out the person who made the poll.

@NebraskaMMAfan-No way Ludwick is more valuable than Pujols, that's why you can't just pick based on stats. Ludwick had a tremendous year, don't get me wrong, but he was very streaky and up and down. He would get hot then go into a slump. Pujols was consitent all the way through, plus Pujols is the big reason Ludwick did so well. When Ludwick batted 2nd he would get a steady diet of fast balls because Pujols was coming up next, when he batted 4th, they would pitch around Pujols and forced to pitch to Ludwick.

Pujols made a very mediocre team play over .500 ball. Pujols is the only guy that was in the NL for the whole season that opposing managers worry about every time he's at the plate.

Don't worry about it Mac. I hear NFL shit all the time working with the Bengals and 95% of it I never hear get reported.

[Nebraska]

My whole argument was shot down by the very guy I was defending. Braun called CC the Brewers MVP, despite him (Braun) hitting the bomb that put them in the playoffs.

Pujols is a great player, one of the best in the game, but if he wins they need to rename this award. Hitting .356/37/115 for a team that finishes in 4th place does not equal the value that hitting .250(yuk)/48/146 for a division winner, or .396/17/53 in 53 VERY meaningful games, or hitting clutch homeruns combined with a .285/37/106 on a playoff team. Pujols should be in the conversation, but he shouldn't be ahead of guys like Howard, Manny, and Braun. They put up big numbers, and carried their teams to the playoffs. That matters when we're talking about value. Don't agree with me, fine. Would you believe Albert himself?

"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP,"

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for MLB Baseball stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from MLB Baseball columnists

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by NebraskaMMAfan

My whole argument was shot down by the very guy I was defending. Braun called CC the Brewers MVP, despite him (Braun) hitting the bomb that put them in the playoffs.

Pujols is a great player, one of the best in the game, but if he wins they need to rename this award. Hitting .356/37/115 for a team that finishes in 4th place does not equal the value that hitting .250(yuk)/48/146 for a division winner, or .396/17/53 in 53 VERY meaningful games, or hitting clutch homeruns combined with a .285/37/106 on a playoff team. Pujols should be in the conversation, but he shouldn't be ahead of guys like Howard, Manny, and Braun. They put up big numbers, and carried their teams to the playoffs. That matters when we're talking about value. Don't agree with me, fine. Would you believe Albert himself?



SportingNews.com - Your expert source for MLB Baseball stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from MLB Baseball columnists

So CC's pitching performance on 3 days rest 3 times in a row means nothing compared to a guy hitting 1 HR??? The award is called Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable Player on a playoff team. Without Pujols, the Cardinals are 10-20 games under .500 easy. Pujols is the Cardinals! He is the team! Look at all the years Bonds won it. They didn't make the playoffs all those years but he was by far the best player in baseball. To say they don't deserve it because their team is not in the playoffs is rediculous. The Brewers, Mets, and Phillies all have better overall teams than St Louis too.

[Nebraska]

Originally Posted by bigsmooth696969

So CC's pitching performance on 3 days rest 3 times in a row means nothing compared to a guy hitting 1 HR???

Did I say CC's performance meant nothing? Can you describe the situation for me, when Braun hit the homerun? To me it looked like the score was tied in bottom of the 8th with two outs and one on, with 26 years of playoff absence on the line. Clutch situation?

The award is called Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable Player on a playoff team.

Exactly, it's called Most VALUEable Player, not Most Feared Player, not Most Outstanding Player. Value needs to translate into team success to give credibility to the word "value".

Without Pujols, the Cardinals are 10-20 games under .500 easy. Pujols is the Cardinals! He is the team!

What was Pujols' era this year?

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by NebraskaMMAfan

Did I say CC's performance meant nothing? Can you describe the situation for me, when Braun hit the homerun? To me it looked like the score was tied in bottom of the 8th with two outs and one on, with 26 years of playoff absence on the line. Clutch situation?



Exactly, it's called Most VALUEable Player, not Most Feared Player, not Most Outstanding Player. Value needs to translate into team success to give credibility to the word "value".



What was Pujols' era this year?

WTF you talkin about Pujol's ERA???? I said the team, without Pujols would be between 10 and 20 games under .500! How is that hartd to understand?

Value??? Pujols is most valuable to StLouis. He is the reason they were 10 games over .500 instead of being bad like they were projected.

[Mac]

Without Pujols the Cards are 20 games worse than they finished, without a doubt. The funny thing about your Pujols quote, he said that the year he got snubbed for Ryan Howard who won the MVP for a non playoff bound team.

This talk about CC being MVP is retarded, not only does the guy only pitch every 5 days but he came over in the last 2 months of the season, he pitched in what 15-16 games for Milwaukee? That's not even 10% of their games for the entire season, how can that even remotely get you an MVP?

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by Mac

Without Pujols the Cards are 20 games worse than they finished, without a doubt. The funny thing about your Pujols quote, he said that the year he got snubbed for Ryan Howard who won the MVP for a non playoff bound team.

This talk about CC being MVP is retarded, not only does the guy only pitch every 5 days but he came over in the last 2 months of the season, he pitched in what 15-16 games for Milwaukee? That's not even 10% of their games for the entire season, how can that even remotely get you an MVP?

No, I meant CC was the MVP of the Brewers! 11-2 with 5 CG and 4 SHO's. He clearly was what they needed to make the playoffs.

[Mac]

Originally Posted by bigsmooth696969

No, I meant CC was the MVP of the Brewers! 11-2 with 5 CG and 4 SHO's. He clearly was what they needed to make the playoffs.

He put them in there for sure, but he didn't get them there, they were in the race before he came over. Best in season trade, you could argue between him and Manny, I would say CC, but MVP, no way. Just the final piece of the puzzle.

the way I see it:

1. Pujols
2. Braun-slight edge over Wright because he came up big in clutch stuations
3. Wright-tough because his glove is so much better than Braun's
4. Berkman
5. Howard

[thedon17]

I don't think anyone stuck out this year but I agree CC has a great shot. This award was so much easier when Bonds was playing

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by thedon17

I don't think anyone stuck out this year but I agree CC has a great shot. This award was so much easier when Bonds was playing

Yeah, the sad thing is, I'd take Bonds NOW over 90% of players today.