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[mcdev88]

if you take pujols off the cards who do you have to be the big bat??? nobody.

if you take wright or delgado you still have reyes and beltran there.

also if you take away howard there is still rollins, utley, burrell.

[thedon17]

So a player is penalized because he has better players on the team?? The MVP is an individual award, not team.

Let's give it to Pujols because his team sucks more. Using that logic, there would never be a Yankee MVP. The award should to based on pure #'s, nothing else.

[Nebraska]

Originally Posted by mcdev88

if you take pujols off the cards who do you have to be the big bat??? nobody.

Ryan Ludwick: .299, 37 hr (tied with Pujols), 113 rbi (3 behind Pujols), 104 r (4 more than Pujols).

Troy Glaus: .270, 27 hr, 99 rbi.

Why are these numbers getting ignored? Ankiel hit 25 bombs, Molina was a .300+ hitting catcher. Wainwright (when healthy), Wellemeyer, Lohse, and Looper all pitched well this season. Pujols is the unquestioned leader of that team, but he isn't the whole team, and he wasn't doing it alone this year. Just because the names aren't popular, doesn't mean they can't produce.

EDIT: I would like to add more to this. Using Glaus' 27/99 as the bar, only two teams in all of baseball had three players hit at least 27 bombs and drive in at least 99 runs. The Mets (Wright, Delgado, Beltran) were one of them, and obviously the Cardinals (Pujols, Ludwick, Glaus) were the other. In conclusion, this myth that Pujols is doing it by himself has no credibility.

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by NebraskaMMAfan

Ryan Ludwick: .299, 37 hr (tied with Pujols), 113 rbi (3 behind Pujols), 104 r (4 more than Pujols).

Troy Glaus: .270, 27 hr, 99 rbi.

Why are these numbers getting ignored? Ankiel hit 25 bombs, Molina was a .300+ hitting catcher. Wainwright (when healthy), Wellemeyer, Lohse, and Looper all pitched well this season. Pujols is the unquestioned leader of that team, but he isn't the whole team, and he wasn't doing it alone this year. Just because the names aren't popular, doesn't mean they can't produce.

EDIT: I would like to add more to this. Using Glaus' 27/99 as the bar, only two teams in all of baseball had three players hit at least 27 bombs and drive in at least 99 runs. The Mets (Wright, Delgado, Beltran) were one of them, and obviously the Cardinals (Pujols, Ludwick, Glaus) were the other. In conclusion, this myth that Pujols is doing it by himself has no credibility.

How many season has Ludwick produced? 1!!! His stats are directly attributed to Pujols batting behind him. Glaus by his power and RBI numebrs had an average season for him. If you include Ankiel I will laugh my ass off because he is nothing more than an average MLB outfielder with a killer gun.

Take Braun off the Brewers and you have Hart-.268/20/91 Fielder-.276/34/102 and Hardy-.283/24/74. Also, Cameron had 25/70 and another gold glove calibur season in the field. Bill Hall had a horrible year and still went 15/55 so gimme a break on who is more valuable.

[Nebraska]

Originally Posted by bigsmooth696969

How many season has Ludwick produced? 1!!! His stats are directly attributed to Pujols batting behind him.

Ludwick had a breakout year, therefore it doesn't really count? I see, and you should at least do some research on this subject, instead of just using exclamation points to drive home your response. If you did the research, you'll see that Ludwick was hitting right behind Pujols (not the other way around) for the majority of the year. 20 of his homeruns and 59 of his rbi came from the 4-hole. Pujols hit in the 3-spot, with the exception of 2 at-bats.

Glaus by his power and RBI numebrs had an average season for him.

Your point? He still would've been the 3rd best run producer on the Brewers just like he was for the Cardinals.

If you include Ankiel I will laugh my ass off because he is nothing more than an average MLB outfielder with a killer gun.

...and 25 homers in only 120 games.

Take Braun off the Brewers and you have Hart-.268/20/91 Fielder-.276/34/102 and Hardy-.283/24/74. Also, Cameron had 25/70 and another gold glove calibur season in the field. Bill Hall had a horrible year and still went 15/55 so gimme a break on who is more valuable.

This is where I wanted you to go, so let's break it down. Oh, and we're not going to use the names of their (Pujols and Braun's) teammates. Hall and Cameron hit .225 and .243 respectively. They are hindering the offense more than they are helping it, so I'm discluding them for your sake.

Player 1a: .299/37/113 <--- edge

Player 2a: .276/34/102

Player 1b: .270/27/99 <--- edge

Player 2b: .268/20/91

Player 1c: .264/25/71

Player 2c: .283/24/74 <--- edge

Player 1a and 1b are Ludwick and Glaus, Player 2c is J.J. Hardy. The edge goes to the Cardinal boppers.

Also, Ryan Braun is the only major leaguer with at least 145 games played, that hasn't committed an error this season.

[bigsmooth696969]

Originally Posted by NebraskaMMAfan

Ludwick had a breakout year, therefore it doesn't really count? I see, and you should at least do some research on this subject, instead of just using exclamation points to drive home your response. If you did the research, you'll see that Ludwick was hitting right behind Pujols (not the other way around) for the majority of the year. 20 of his homeruns and 59 of his rbi came from the 4-hole. Pujols hit in the 3-spot, with the exception of 2 at-bats.



Your point? He still would've been the 3rd best run producer on the Brewers just like he was for the Cardinals.



...and 25 homers in only 120 games.



This is where I wanted you to go, so let's break it down. Oh, and we're not going to use the names of their (Pujols and Braun's) teammates. Hall and Cameron hit .225 and .243 respectively. They are hindering the offense more than they are helping it, so I'm discluding them for your sake.

Player 1a: .299/37/113 <--- edge

Player 2a: .276/34/102

Player 1b: .270/27/99 <--- edge

Player 2b: .268/20/91

Player 1c: .264/25/71

Player 2c: .283/24/74 <--- edge

Player 1a and 1b are Ludwick and Glaus, Player 2c is J.J. Hardy. The edge goes to the Cardinal boppers.

Also, Ryan Braun is the only major leaguer with at least 145 games played, that hasn't committed an error this season.

In front or behind Pujols, it doesn't matter. They pitch around Pujols to face Ludwick. I'm not saying his season was not good or shouldn't count. He had a hell of a season but let me ask you this......Does he have that good of a season without Pujols batting infront OR behind him? Pujols has had better seasons without Ludwick batting infront or behind him. Who would YOU rather pitch to, Ludwick or Pujols? I am not gloating on Pujols because I hate the Cards and Pujols but the man is a beast and is the biggest and best beast on that team. I'm ending my arguements because I am starting to sound like my wife by nagging all my points over and over again.

[mcdev88]

im sorry im just now getting to this. wheather in front or behind pujols they are pitching you strikes because they either dont want you on base for him or he is on base and dont want him to score. just think of where the cards are without him

[Mac]

Ludwick's season is in direct relationship to Pujols. When you hit in front of Pujols you are being pitched to because they don't want anyone on in front of him. When you hit behind him they pitch around him to get to you. Either spot, you get a steady diet of fastballs, that's why Ludwick had a breakout year last year and why when healthy, Duncan had a breakout year the season before.

Pujols is hands down the NL MVP, the players themselves already voted him MVP, so I will have to take their word for it.

[bigsmooth696969]

Oh I hate to say I told you so, but......I FUCKEN TOLD YOU SO!!!

[Nebraska]

Originally Posted by bigsmooth696969

Oh I hate to say I told you so, but......I FUCKEN TOLD YOU SO!!!

Where are your after thoughts about the NL Cy Young?

Who got that one right?