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Thread: Steroid abuse scars a young muscle man for life

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post

    Have you ever been around bodybuilders? (I'm sure you have judging by your defense of injecting hormones.) Are you telling me they don't stare at themselves in the mirror constantly and stress over every single muscle fiber in their bodies? What constitutes being vain to you?

    That is not being vain. It is bodybuilding. Posing to achieve a presentation of full definition takes practice. That means spending time in front of the mirror and checking EVERY little fiber of every muscle. That's what the judges are looking for. Any sort of sign of a muscle group that is lacking and not proportionate to the rest of the muscles will cause point deductions. Posing is one of the most important parts of the sport, and has nothing to do with ego or being "vain".

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esox Express View Post
    That is not being vain. It is bodybuilding. Posing to achieve a presentation of full definition takes practice. That means spending time in front of the mirror and checking EVERY little fiber of every muscle. That's what the judges are looking for. Any sort of sign of a muscle group that is lacking and not proportionate to the rest of the muscles will cause point deductions. Posing is one of the most important parts of the sport, and has nothing to do with ego or being "vain".
    Maybe I should clarify, bodybuilding itself is vain. Just like modeling. It takes a vain personality to be attracted to either profession. The whole premise of either is to be as close to "perfect" looking as possible. Someone chose to get into a hobby or profession that requires countless hours of work in the gym, a ridiculous diet, major supplimentation and in this case dangerous drugs all in the hopes of achieving the "perfect" physique. That is beyond just being a little vain, it's fanatically so. Are you saying someone who bases their entire lifestyle around their appearance isn't vain?

    Look, I didn't want to start bashing bodybuilders. If you like bodybuilding more power to you. To each his own. I think every person on the planet wants to look good, and the definition of what looks good is different to most. I don't even mean it as a huge insult. I just believe that if you pump garbage into your body to achieve it then you have put yourself at risk and don't deserve any sympathy. If you didn't understand the risk then you are an idiot who doesn't deserve any sympathy.
    Last edited by Witchdoctor; 09-19-2008 at 06:03 AM.
    "He is strong who conquers others, he who conquers himself is mighty" -Lao Tzu

  3. #13
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    I agree with one of the previous posts that both sides have made many good points on the subject of steroids. As someone who used to be involved in amateur bodybuilding I want to add a little to the discussion.

    From my experience, many guys who end up taking steroids didn't start out wanting to do them or even considering them. It is when your body reaches its natural potential and you hit a permanent plateau that many turn to anabolic steroids. Seeing the changes in your body, growing and increasing your strength is highly addictive. To many so is the very weightlifting and feeling fit and in great shape. But at some point, no matter how dedicated you are, you just won't be able to overcome your natural/genetic potential, and you can either accept what you have or take the plunge and say, "Fuck my genes, I'm gonna change them." And let me tell you, it's hard to do the former if you're in your early 20s and you think you have the world by the balls.

    I started out wanting to just look better but I found myself addicted to...lifting combined with increased power and self-confidence. I admire all those who devote all waking hours to lifting and dieting, but I also think it can be self-destructive at most, and extremely life-compromising in the least. It's hard to enjoy life when you have to weigh your food and eat every couple of hours, and watch what you eat at the same time. I'd go through a dozen of eggs and 2 shell-steaks every day. My grocery bill was at least $20-30 dollars every day, not to count the protein and other supplements. My then-girlfriend had to deal with the stench of seared meat every day and having the freezer filled to the limit with bland hamburger balls I'd make myself from pounds of the leanest ground beef. I'd even carry pieces of meat in my pocket when we went out Sunday afternoons to hang out around the 'hood just in case I'd go past my eating time. It got to be ridiculous.

    I'm all for people living their lives the way they want it as long as they don't destroy someone else's, but it's hard to deny that professional or even serious addiction to working out and obsessing about one's looks can't be good for you, if not physically, at least psychologically. I don't believe only vain people get into bodybuilding, but I do believe that the addition can be so powerful, you become vain. Most people, whether professional or amateurs obsessed with working out, definitely suffer from what's called muscle dismorphia--obsession with one's physical appearance and fear that missing one workout will set you back months. I know because I was there. I would not consider someone who does steroids any less of a human being, but at the same time I do think it's ultimately a huge mistake to do them given the risks. Because of that I would never endorse the use of AS, but neither would I go on a crusade against it or judge someone because of it. Just my 10 cents.
    Last edited by marekny144; 09-19-2008 at 08:41 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
    Maybe I should clarify, bodybuilding itself is vain. Just like modeling. It takes a vain personality to be attracted to either profession. The whole premise of either is to be as close to "perfect" looking as possible. Someone chose to get into a hobby or profession that requires countless hours of work in the gym, a ridiculous diet, major supplimentation and in this case dangerous drugs all in the hopes of achieving the "perfect" physique. That is beyond just being a little vain, it's fanatically so. Are you saying someone who bases their entire lifestyle around their appearance isn't vain?

    Look, I didn't want to start bashing bodybuilders.
    If you like bodybuilding more power to you. To each his own. I think every person on the planet wants to look good, and the definition of what looks good is different to most. I don't even mean it as a huge insult. I just believe that if you pump garbage into your body to achieve it then you have put yourself at risk and don't deserve any sympathy. If you didn't understand the risk then you are an idiot who doesn't deserve any sympathy.
    Well you just did. I have dabbled in amateur natural bodybuilding a few times. I know many other bodybuilders, and I can only assume you do not personally know any bodybuilders. I'd say about 95% of all the bodybuilders I know are also among the most humble people I know, not vain at all as you implied. People just assume that bodybuilders have huge egos, which is really unwarranted in my opinion. I don't know anything about modeling, so I can't say anything on their behalf..... but don't assume anything about anyone, regardless of who they are. You don't know them.

  5. #15
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    I did not mean to insult you in the least and I apologize if I did so. But I do think you are taking the vain comment the wrong way. All vain means to me is that you're obsessed with your appearance. The amount of time spent in the gym and on your diet combined with taking suppliments and drugs in some cases, shows an obsession with appearance, IMO. I didn't intend to come across as if all bodybuilders are arrogant and cocky. I don't believe the two are necessarily connected. It's one thing to be obsessed with appearance, its another to tie that to your view of someones worth as a person.

    I have known a few bodybuilders, and you're right. The few I've gotten to know (not really well mind you) seem like good people. They are certainly hard working and dedicated to what they do. I never felt like they looked down on me or anything. But that doesn't change my view on their personality, I do believe that. And I still don't feel sorry for anyone who ingests anything dangerous like steroids or drugs of any kind with all the easy access to information out there today.

    I guess we have to agree to disagree.
    "He is strong who conquers others, he who conquers himself is mighty" -Lao Tzu

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
    Not everyone that lifts weights condone using steroids.

    Of course not. Most natural lifters (such as myself) however will at least respect those who first approach their full genetic potential, research the pros and cons of steroids, and use them with reasonable doses and PCT. There aren't many people who actually lift who condone the media nonsense regarding roids or throwing people in prison for years for them. It's kinda like how the average vegetarian doesn't condone meat eating, but only a few fringe groups like PETA will be assholes about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
    And yes, breast implants, alcohol and prescription drugs (sans life threatening illness) should definately not be in your body. Aren't you against smoking? Aren't you against drug use? Well, whats the difference? Prescription drugs are still drugs.

    Okay, then don't put them in your body. But don't judge those who do, at least not those who put a lot of effort into their decision-making process and are very careful about not going overboard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
    Have you ever been around bodybuilders? (I'm sure you have judging by your defense of injecting hormones.) Are you telling me they don't stare at themselves in the mirror constantly and stress over every single muscle fiber in their bodies? What constitutes being vain to you?

    Actually, I think most bodybuilders are the opposite of vain. They don't sit around in the mirror saying "damn, I look amazing." They sit around in the mirror thinking "OMG, is my waist getting bigger?" or "Oh no, my hamstrings don't match my quads."




    Quote Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
    BTW, I'm not savoring in his misfortune. Should I feel sorry for him or something? Should I feel sorry for meth addicts that smoke their way to a set of false teeth?

    Yeah, the guy's a retard and brought it on himself. He was probably using like a gram of test a week. I would have a lot more respect for someone who was using roids, but at 1/4 the dose and using proper cycle/post-cycle therapy, as well as getting their blood checked after a cycle.
    Last edited by Rufio; 09-21-2008 at 05:29 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by marekny144 View Post
    I agree with one of the previous posts that both sides have made many good points on the subject of steroids. As someone who used to be involved in amateur bodybuilding I want to add a little to the discussion.

    From my experience, many guys who end up taking steroids didn't start out wanting to do them or even considering them. It is when your body reaches its natural potential and you hit a permanent plateau that many turn to anabolic steroids. Seeing the changes in your body, growing and increasing your strength is highly addictive. To many so is the very weightlifting and feeling fit and in great shape. But at some point, no matter how dedicated you are, you just won't be able to overcome your natural/genetic potential, and you can either accept what you have or take the plunge and say, "Fuck my genes, I'm gonna change them." And let me tell you, it's hard to do the former if you're in your early 20s and you think you have the world by the balls.

    I started out wanting to just look better but I found myself addicted to...lifting combined with increased power and self-confidence. I admire all those who devote all waking hours to lifting and dieting, but I also think it can be self-destructive at most, and extremely life-compromising in the least. It's hard to enjoy life when you have to weigh your food and eat every couple of hours, and watch what you eat at the same time. I'd go through a dozen of eggs and 2 shell-steaks every day. My grocery bill was at least $20-30 dollars every day, not to count the protein and other supplements. My then-girlfriend had to deal with the stench of seared meat every day and having the freezer filled to the limit with bland hamburger balls I'd make myself from pounds of the leanest ground beef. I'd even carry pieces of meat in my pocket when we went out Sunday afternoons to hang out around the 'hood just in case I'd go past my eating time. It got to be ridiculous.

    I'm all for people living their lives the way they want it as long as they don't destroy someone else's, but it's hard to deny that professional or even serious addiction to working out and obsessing about one's looks can't be good for you, if not physically, at least psychologically. I don't believe only vain people get into bodybuilding, but I do believe that the addition can be so powerful, you become vain. Most people, whether professional or amateurs obsessed with working out, definitely suffer from what's called muscle dismorphia--obsession with one's physical appearance and fear that missing one workout will set you back months. I know because I was there. I would not consider someone who does steroids any less of a human being, but at the same time I do think it's ultimately a huge mistake to do them given the risks. Because of that I would never endorse the use of AS, but neither would I go on a crusade against it or judge someone because of it. Just my 10 cents.


    Great post.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufio View Post
    Actually, I think most bodybuilders are the opposite of vain. They don't sit around in the mirror saying "damn, I look amazing." They sit around in the mirror thinking "OMG, is my waist getting bigger?" or "Oh no, my hamstrings don't match my quads."
    Dude, that is vanity. You are confusing arrogance, with vanity. Insecurity is the root of vanity, not arrogance. I never claimed bodybuilders were cocky, just that they are obsessed with their appearance, which is vanity. And that is a totally fair statement, JMO.

    I didn't mean to personally attack you, but I have a right to have a position on the steroid issue. It's perfectly fine to make a judgement on someone based on decisions they make.

    I believe every sport, including bodybuilding, would be much better if steroids were not involved. What is wrong with that idea?
    "He is strong who conquers others, he who conquers himself is mighty" -Lao Tzu

  9. #19
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    The problem with a lack of steroids in bodybuilding is that it's physically impossible to get monster big at the level of bodyfat they come in at. Look at natural bodybuilding competitions. Getting down to 5-6% bodyfat takes something away from their thickness compared to the juiced BBers. Granted, I personally think a top natural BBer would look much better in the off season shape, bigger and a bit smoother but still defined at 9-10% bodyfat. But competitive bodybuilding is really not about building the ideal physique that most people strive for. It's about reaching a level of fitness that looks borderline inhuman. Personally, I'd rather look like Cro Cop or Frank Shamrock than Ronnie Coleman any day.

  10. #20
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    People who take roids for a non-medical reason, to enhance their looks or athletic ability are pathetic IMO.

    Look people, you either got it, or you don't. If it isn't worth working for, how is it worth risking your health for? Makes no sense.
    Goodbye Mr. Burton

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