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Thread: Are MMA fights fixed?

  1. #1
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    Default Are MMA fights fixed?

    Are MMA fights fixed? It seems to be coming up on a few different discussion boards lately, and it's really not good to start making assumptions. I see people talk about how this guy could have got out of this submission, or this guy didn't get hit that hard. I personally fell that MMA is not fixed and that the people that keep bringing it up, seem to want it to be fixed, or they like to fire up the real MMA fans.

    MMA is a pure sport, it action packed and it's going to become a top sport in the world. So why do people want to discredit it? It's like people want to see bad things come out of MMA. These people haven't been a MMA match, but they decide to make the statement and this “fight looked fixed”, “I really hope that MMA is not fixed, but it could be.”

    I think that we should just enjoy MMA and not try and find ways to bring it down.


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  2. #2
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    Sure there are fights that COULD be fixed but thats just like any other sport. There are football games that COULD be fixed or boxing matches or hell tennis matches. Any sport can be fixed but most people cry work all of the time for no reason.

  3. #3
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    I think alot of fighters are set up with a certain result in mind ie "tune up" fight. I can't honestly see a fixed fight in MMA since the competitors train pretty hard (well most of em) that

    That Lauzon dude that beat Pulver was supposed to be a sacrificial lamb...
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  4. #4

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    i don't think many of the fights are fixed... but the ufc does try to baby the TUF participants....the only time i had a feeling something was fixed, was when stephan bonnar got a bullshit decision win over keith jardine.. when jardine clearly won the fight and was more aggressive...bonnar could barely stand after all those leg kicks..besides that it seems pretty legit...

  5. #5
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    As already mentioned, only when judges get involved. I don't see enough money in MMA for people to take a dive and I still see MMA fighters as legit fighters that actually do care about what they do and I think it is important for them to keep their pride in tact. Maybe things will change when MMA becomes huge and millions of dollars starts to exchange hands.

    btw, I don't see a lot of questioning this.....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chungt79
    As already mentioned, only when judges get involved. I don't see enough money in MMA for people to take a dive and I still see MMA fighters as legit fighters that actually do care about what they do and I think it is important for them to keep their pride in tact. Maybe things will change when MMA becomes huge and millions of dollars starts to exchange hands.

    btw, I don't see a lot of questioning this.....
    Quote Originally Posted by trek
    When I watched PRIDE Real Deal, a few of those submissions didn't seem all that tight and still the guy tapped. Sure hope I'm wrong about that but, that's what it looked like. Mark Coleman is no amature and Fedor's submission was coming from a mile away.... and still Coleman got caught. Strange. Jessica Simpson could have gotten out of Fedor's arm bar... it was that sloppy. And yes, I rewond and watched it several times. It was weak.

    Just one that I have seen over the last while. Not going to look back at all threads I have read on the net. People have said it, not alot, but more than enough.


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    First of all the term "work" is often misused. A "worked" fight is one in which both fighters agree to work toward a predetermined finish. A "thrown" fight is one in which one of the fighters takes a dive or allows himself to be defeated - his opponent may or may not be aware of it. For example Oleg-Macias was not a work because Oleg was clearly not aware that Macias was going to take a dive.

    Fights that are generally considered by consensus to be worked or thrown:


    Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.

    Dan Severn vs. Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (U-Japan) - Severn denies that his fight against pro wrestler Matsunaga was worked, but watching the fight itself leaves little doubt and the general consensus is that this was a worked fight.

    Kimo vs Kazushi Sakuraba (S-Cup) - This was billed as a legit NHB fight on a Shootboxing card, but it turns out it was not legit (another NHB fight on the card, M. Illioukhin vs Mestre Hulk was legit). The fight looks very real and Kimo lands a number of really solid shots and headbutts. There are several versions of what took place in this fight, but perhaps the closest thing to the truth is the version that has Sakuraba carrying Kimo for most of the fight before finally taking a dive without Kimo's knowledge. That would explain Kimo throwing real shots and Sak playing defense the whole time and also the fact that Kimo vehemently (and convincingly) insists it was legit, yet Sakuraba has said on several occasions that his first shoot MMA fight was the Conan Silviera fight, not the Kimo fight.

    Murakami Kazunari vs. John Dixon (Pride 1) - It was well-known in the fight community even before the first Pride took place that the Kazunari-Dixon and Kitao-Jones fights would be works. Pride's initial intent was to showcase different types of fights in addition to NHB - full contact karate, kickboxing and also shoot-style works like RINGS and PWFG. Later Pride would be more secretive about its worked fights.

    Koji Kitao vs Nathan Jones (Pride 1) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kyle Sturgeon (Pride 3) - All of Takadas "wins" were blatant works. This is pretty much common knowledge.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Mark Coleman (Pride 5) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Alexander Otsuka (Pride 7) - See above.


    Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:

    Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Gary Goodridge (Pride 6)
    - Anytime a pro wrestler (other than Sak) gets a win in Pride people will claim it was a work. Gary denies this was a work but many people suspect it was. Hard to tell for sure.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Masaaki Sataki (Pride 11) - See above.

    Vitor Belfort vs. Joe Charles (Ultimate Japan 1) - Vitor was sick and refused to fight unless he was able to pick his opponent. He chose Charles who was one of his training partners at the time. No strikes were thrown in what turned out to be a grappling match, with Vitor winning by armbar. Whether this was a worked fight or they simply had a gentleman's agreement not to strike is open to question.

    Mark Schultz vs. Leopoldo Montenegro (Jungle Fight 1) - Schultz claims this was work but everyone else involved denies it. There have been questions about some of Montenegro's other fights in the Inoki run promotion as well.

    Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.
    Last edited by Clint; 12-01-2006 at 05:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint
    First of all the term "work" is often misused. A "worked" fight is one in which both fighters agree to work toward a predetermined finish. A "thrown" fight is one in which one of the fighters takes a dive or allows himself to be defeated - his opponent may or may not be aware of it. For example Oleg-Macias was not a work because Oleg was clearly not aware that Macias was going to take a dive.

    Fights that are generally considered by consensus to be worked or thrown:


    Oleg Taktarov vs. Anthony Macias (UFC VI) - According to Macias, Buddy Albin the local site promoter and manager of both fighters threatened that Macias' career would be over unless he took a dive against Oleg. Oleg was unware of this. Macias went on to win titles in several Albin-promoted events. Buddy Albin was a total sleeze bag BTW.

    Dan Severn vs. Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (U-Japan) - Severn denies that his fight against pro wrestler Matsunaga was worked, but watching the fight itself leaves little doubt and the general consensus is that this was a worked fight.

    Kimo vs Kazushi Sakuraba (S-Cup) - This was billed as a legit NHB fight on a Shootboxing card, but it turns out it was not legit (another NHB fight on the card, M. Illioukhin vs Mestre Hulk was legit). The fight looks very real and Kimo lands a number of really solid shots and headbutts. There are several versions of what took place in this fight, but perhaps the closest thing to the truth is the version that has Sakuraba carrying Kimo for most of the fight before finally taking a dive without Kimo's knowledge. That would explain Kimo throwing real shots and Sak playing defense the whole time and also the fact that Kimo vehemently (and convincingly) insists it was legit, yet Sakuraba has said on several occasions that his first shoot MMA fight was the Conan Silviera fight, not the Kimo fight.

    Murakami Kazunari vs. John Dixon (Pride 1) - It was well-known in the fight community even before the first Pride took place that the Kazunari-Dixon and Kitao-Jones fights would be works. Pride's initial intent was to showcase different types of fights in addition to NHB - full contact karate, kickboxing and also shoot-style works like RINGS and PWFG. Later Pride would be more secretive about its worked fights.

    Koji Kitao vs Nathan Jones (Pride 1) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Kyle Sturgeon (Pride 3) - All of Takadas "wins" were blatant works. This is pretty much common knowledge.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Mark Coleman (Pride 5) - See above.

    Nobuhiko Takada vs. Alexander Otsuka (Pride 7) - See above.


    Fights that are suspected of being works but there is no consensus agreement:

    Don Frye vs. Mark Hall 3 (Ultimate Ultimate 2) - Several months after the fact Hall claimed that in the locker room before the match Frye had offered him $50,000 to take a dive so he would be fresh when he fought Tank in the finals (Frye had had a grueling match with Goodridge in the opening round and was exhausted). Hall came out with his accusations because, he said, Frye never paid him. Frye vehemently denied it and said Hall was a disturbed individual. Hall was blacklisted by the fight community and never fought again. The jury is still out on this one.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Gary Goodridge (Pride 6)
    - Anytime a pro wrestler (other than Sak) gets a win in Pride people will claim it was a work. Gary denies this was a work but many people suspect it was. Hard to tell for sure.

    Naoya Ogawa vs. Masaaki Sataki (Pride 11) - See above.

    Vitor Belfort vs. Joe Charles (Ultimate Japan 1) - Vitor was sick and refused to fight unless he was able to pick his opponent. He chose Charles who was one of his training partners at the time. No strikes were thrown in what turned out to be a grappling match, with Vitor winning by armbar. Whether this was a worked fight or they simply had a gentleman's agreement not to strike is open to question.

    Mark Schultz vs. Leopoldo Montenegro (Jungle Fight 1) - Schultz claims this was work but everyone else involved denies it. There have been questions about some of Montenegro's other fights in the Inoki run promotion as well.



    Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.
    Very interesting thanks!
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  9. #9
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    Very interesting...but notice how old those fights are. Fights today aren't works or thrown, I think they are pretty apparent. The only real problem I see is that sometimes judges seem to already have a predetermined winner and sometimes the final scores are complete bullshit. Already mentioned the Jardine/Bonnar fight, and also the Serra/Lytle fight where two judges had 30-27 Serra and one had 30-27 Lytle, there is no way you can be that lopsided although I agree Serra won the judging scorecards make no sense. If anything is a work in the business it's when it is left in the judges hands, which is where all of BJ's decision losses come to mind for me.

  10. #10
    WadoKai Guest

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    If Chuck Liddell loses, I'll assume he gave his buddy half a million dollars to bet on Tito, then took a dive. That's a huge return, plus more money in a rubber match.

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