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Thread: MMANews FORUMS Rankings - May 10, 2011

  1. #11
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    Of course not everybody is gona agree but they are the best and most accurate rankings i've seen. Don't like Aoki being ahead of Miller and Florian, i'm certain if he actually faced any of the guys underneath him except Kawajiri he would lose. And would like to see Penn abit higher but again the most accurate rankings i've seen. As much as i hate to say it Fedor probably is too high after current events.

    Just looking at these rankings makes me think again just how badly the middleweight division is in need of some new blood&talent.
    FAVOURITE FIGHTERS:Shogun,GSP,JDS,BJ Penn,Fedor,Rampage,Hendo,Wandy,Sonnen,Frankie Edgar,Nick Diaz,Carlos Condit,Rory Mac,Mousasi,Cerrone,Rumble&Big Country.LEAST FAVOURTE:Anderson,Bisping,Rashad,Mir,Maynard,Shiel ds&Melendez.


  2. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBEAR View Post
    May get worse before it gets better, remeber that Nate the Great is going down to WW for his nect fight
    I forgot about that and i really don't get why he is doing that, he would only have to win one fight over a top relevant guy to be right back in contender talk. Him and Chael are right in there for the next shot's, all he would need is one good performance to get Dana thinking of him for a title-shot.

    He is easily one of the top guys at middleweight. Plus he looks a big middle-weight, can't imagine that cut is gona be easy.
    FAVOURITE FIGHTERS:Shogun,GSP,JDS,BJ Penn,Fedor,Rampage,Hendo,Wandy,Sonnen,Frankie Edgar,Nick Diaz,Carlos Condit,Rory Mac,Mousasi,Cerrone,Rumble&Big Country.LEAST FAVOURTE:Anderson,Bisping,Rashad,Mir,Maynard,Shiel ds&Melendez.

  3. #14
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    Gegard is absent again, he is still the DREAM LHW champion.

    Fedor is number 4 with 2 loses, when will people let go? GOAT for sure,but right now, he isnt relevant at HW, hes not even fighting at HW for his next fight.

    BJ is two loses at LW,and a draw at WW so its hard to rank him atm.

    Jones only has 1 win over a top 10, I dont know if he should be ranked as the best LHW right now, compared to top guys fighting only top guys for the last decade.
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    Ill go against the grain.
    Werdum via triangle
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  4. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Gegard is absent again, he is still the DREAM LHW champion.
    He just fought to a draw with Keith Jardine, and has beaten exactly 0 top 10 LHW's. He gets a lot of impressive wins, but his competition is not very good.

    BJ is two loses at LW,and a draw at WW so its hard to rank him atm.
    You forgot about his KO of Hughes? He has one dominant win at WW, and a draw against the #3 ranked WW. I'd argue that puts him above both Condit & Alves.

    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Jones only has 1 win over a top 10, I dont know if he should be ranked as the best LHW right now, compared to top guys fighting only top guys for the last decade.
    Jones has two wins over top 10 guys: Bader & Shogun. Both were one sided demolitions, just like all his other fights against guys outside the top 10 like Hamill, Vera, Bonner, & Vlad. He deserves to be #1.
    “Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”

  5. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adambomb View Post
    Fedor's track record is great, but the "top 10" opponents he defeated are currently all irrelevant, so his dominance is negated, while both his losses (to current top 10 calibur fighters) were embarassingly bad. .

    Fedor hasn't won a fight since 2009 (the longest drought of any fighter you have listed in any division),
    The fighters Fedor beat may be currently irrelvant now, but what happened to them after they lost to Fedor is moot. This is the same reason why people dismissed Fedor's wins to Sylvia (#5 at the time) and Arlovski (#2 or #3 at the time), because they continued to lose after.

    For example, if Overeem loses to Werdum, should he fall out of the rankings because he doesn't have a victory over a current top 10? If Mir loses to Nelson, should he still be ranked because of his victory over Brock who is currently a top 10 but at the time was not even top 50? If Brock loses to Dos Santos and falls to (let's say) #10, does it devalue Cain's victories over both Nog (currently unranked) and Brock?

    I'm glad you mentioned the drought. Although Fedor hasn't won since 2009, it was November 2009. The reason I state the month is because it hasn't been 2 years which is what we specified, a priori, as a criterion of booting someone off the top 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adambomb View Post
    & Bigfoot's domination of him proves that Bigfoot is the better fighter. Having Bigfoot ranked behind Fedor is illogical and causes these rankings (at least at heavyweight) to become a joke. .
    Our rankings are not just based on head to head matches. Otherwise, we would face dilemmas such as the Machida-Rampage-Rashad triangle. We rank according to how fighter A and fighter B are ranked at the time of the fight. A #2 fighter losing to a #10 fighter causes #2 fall in the rankings and #10 to rise, but not necessarily above the previously ranked #2 fighter. That's when we factor in track record, and based on that, Big Foot (a fighter with no track record of beating ranked opponents) wouldn't move ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adambomb View Post
    The point of these rankings appears to be to remove "what if?" opinions and personal bias in order to rate purely on performance. That's a great idea, but it has to be applied unilaterally. Fedor hasn't performed well in some time, but is getting the benefit of the doubt due to inactivity & nostalgia. Doesn't Randy Couture belong in the top 10 at 205 if you're basing so much on historical success? He beat Chuck & Tito when they were both top 5, & his only losses at 205 came to Chuck (#1 or #2 at the time) & Machida. Certainly no shame in that. He's also won 2 of his last 3, and just like Fedor beat Tim Sylvia over 2 years ago when he was a top 10 heavyweight.
    If Fedor's only ranked wins were in 2003 (much like Randy's), he would be removed. As mentioned in criterion B, "Recent victories hold more weight than historical, however, it doesn't negate it". Fedor has beaten plenty of ranked opponents from 2003 to 2009.

    There are also other factors that come in to play such as the strength of the LHW division to the fairweather division in HW (where many are softly ranked).


    Quote Originally Posted by rampage9712 View Post
    Werdum beats fedor and jumps to #2, bigfoot beats fedor, more impressively imo and he is still below him. Not saying either should be too high up, but using the logic that jumped werdum up.
    Factor in rankings when they fought each other. At the time, Werdum was a ranked fighter (#7 or #8) against the most dominant champion of all time in Fedor (#1 HW for 8 years). When Werdum beat Fedor, he didn't move ahead of him, he was at at #3 and Fedor was at #2. When Big Foot (#10 HW) beat Fedor (#2) at the time, Fedor moved down below both Werdum and Dos Santos and Big Foot moved up.


    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Gegard is absent again, he is still the DREAM LHW champion.

    Fedor is number 4 with 2 loses, when will people let go? GOAT for sure,but right now, he isnt relevant at HW, hes not even fighting at HW for his next fight.

    BJ is two loses at LW,and a draw at WW so its hard to rank him atm.

    Jones only has 1 win over a top 10, I dont know if he should be ranked as the best LHW right now, compared to top guys fighting only top guys for the last decade.
    Our rankings are based on the credibility of the opposition; holding a title that is quite irrelevant I may add, isn't a factor, i.e. Mousasi didn't beat anyone noteworthy for it. Plus Gegard is probably #11 or #12 on all the members' lists. If Mousasi would've beat Jardine, he would've been #10 on my list (can't speak for the others), however, he didn't and I feel there are 10 people that deserve to be ranked above him.

    Fedor discussed above

    BJ had a win over Hughes (who was top 10 when they fought), and had a draw with the bonified #2 WW (at that time) in Fitch. If you look at the WW division, not many fighters have more than one ranked opponent on their win column.

    Jones has wins over two top 10's in Bader and Shogun (#1 LHW and top 5 p4p at the time), and he dismantled both.

  6. #17
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    Pretty good overall but I'd change a few things.

    JDS above Werdum, and move Fedor back a bit
    Machida above Rampage
    I'd put Alves above Koscheck, and put Kampman at 10 and take out Diego, he lost to John Hathaway and shouldn't have beaten Kampmann

    Also, Gray above Gilbert. He's beaten the current UFC champ and took him to a draw. He's also beaten Nate Diaz, Jim Miller, Kenny Florian, Huerta, Dennis Siver, and Rich Clementi. I'd say thats pretty impressive even though he did beat Siver and Miller while they were still kinda green. I'm sure he's improving too, though, just maybe not at as much of a rate as Miller.
    Last edited by dbader08; 05-11-2011 at 12:24 AM.

  7. #18
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    I just read every post in that first link, and I still dont understand how Fedor is so high. Basically past fights trump all I take it.

    Brock was #1 and gets destroyed by #4 - #5 in Velasquez, then drops to #6. OK I guess I can see that.

    So how come Fedor was ranked #1 and gets destroyed by #10-12 in Werdum, AND #10-12 in BigFoot, and he stays at #4???, yeah that makes no sense to me.

    Even the mods/panel themselves gotta admit thats a headscratcher to say the least. (And I didnt just make those numbers up, Werdum and Bigfoot got HMs or borderline 10(at best) before they fought Fedor, check er out.) http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings...Rankings-21136

    http://mmaweekly.com/mma-top-10-rank...ots-of-changes

    Also..Why on earth is Josh Barnett on there?? When was his last win over anyone top ten?.... anyone know?... Its his most impressive fight hes won...You got it, a split decision over Big nog in 2000 fucking 6....seem likes this site likes to live in the past TBH.

    Having him on a top ten list for beating Yvel, Siliga(?) and Geronimo is just laughable sorry. The guy has a boatload of skills and uber amounts of potential, and he use to be a top 10 fighter. But that alone doesnt warrant sticking around the top ten. Especially when your fighting cans and castaways and testing posistive while doing so.

    Im not trying to sway anybodys opinions on the panel, just stating my opinion. And sorry if I came across as a douche. I know it takes alot of time to sit down and try to come up with rankings that "make sense", besides a couple minor flaws they are the best overall I've seen.

    I just look at all the other rankings on-line, and not a single one of them have Fedor currently in their top 5. That alone warrants a "wtf moment".

    Sherdog has him at 8.
    MMAweekly has him at 7.
    Fightmagazine has him at 9
    MMAmania and BE at 9.
    ESPN has him at 9
    Fightmatrix at 8
    "The Spot" has him at 7.....See a trend here?

    ....Seems like thats the right place for him(7-9)....Doesnt it?

    Guess I get to be part of the only website that thinks not lol

    MMA Heavyweight Rankings | FIGHT! Magazine
    USA TODAY / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings
    HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION (over 205 pounds) | MMAWeekly.com
    Sherdog Official Mixed Martial Arts Rankings
    Fight Matrix - Mixed Martial Arts Rankings
    MMA Spot - Heavyweight Rankings - May 2011
    MMA Power Rankings - ESPN
    Last edited by LefthookStcrook; 05-11-2011 at 12:30 AM.

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    I'll go on record and say I my rankings had Fedor below Bigfoot.
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  9. #20
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    Since everyone agrees that rankings are subjective, why does anyone bring up someone's previous ranking as fact? Isn't it far more likely that recent events have added to or refined our knowledge?
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