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Thread: Dissecting the Fedor "GOAT Legacy".

  1. #1
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    Default Dissecting the Fedor "GOAT Legacy".

    Let me start this off by saying I AM a Fedor nut hugger.
    But I have always been open about criticism towards his career, his legacy, his GOAT comments.

    After watching this interview:
    Mauro Ranallo with Dana White | Video | theScore
    and listening to some of the things Dana had to say, I really wanted to go back and look at the career of The Last Emperor & really see if he lives/lived up to the hype.

    I'm gonna try to make it quick and painless.

    So I'll start with this.........

    The "And Who Are You?" List of opponents:

    1. Martin Lazarov,
    2. Levon Lagvilava,
    3. Hiroya Takada,
    4. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka x2,
    5. Mihail Apostolov,
    6. Ryushi Yanagisawa,
    7. Lee Hasdell,
    8. Chris Haseman,
    9. Egidijus Valavicius,
    10. Yuji Nagata,
    11. Naoya Ogawa,
    12. Wagner da Conceicao Martins.

    The "Hey You Were/Are Someone People Pay Attention To" List of opponents:

    1. Ricardo Arona,
    2. Kerry Schall,
    3. Renato Sobral,
    4. Semmy Schilt,
    5. Heath Herring,
    6. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira x3,
    7. Kazuyuki Fujita,
    8. Gary Goodridge,
    9. Mark Coleman x2,
    10. Kevin Randleman,
    11. Mirko Filipovic,
    12. Mark Hunt,
    13. Matt Lindland,
    14. Hong Man Choi,
    15. Tim Sylvia,
    16. Andrei Arlovski,
    17. Brett Rogers,
    18. Fabricio Werdum,
    19. Antonio Silva,
    20. Dan Henderson.

    Now time to dissect the Worthy Opponents:

    In the 1.5 years that Fedor fought before going to PRIDE he fought 11 people & only 2 of them went on to do anything worthy in MMA.
    1. Ricardo Arona(a Light Heavyweight) - When they fought Ricardo was 2-0 & Fedor was 3-0.
    2. Renato Sobral(usually a Light Heavyweight) - When they fought Renato was 21-2 & Fedor was 7-0(I don't count that Cut to Kohsaka as a lose).

    Once arriving at Pride he fought(in this order):

    Semmy Schilt,
    Heath Herring,
    Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira,
    Kazuyuki Fujita,
    Gary Goodridge,
    Mark Coleman,
    Kevin Randleman,
    Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira,
    Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira,
    Mirko Filipovic,
    Mark Coleman,
    Mark Hunt.

    That was from 2002-2006.
    It's a really good progression of Talented Fighters and a fucking Impressive List of WINS.
    Although some of those guys aren't really worth a shit now, they were fucking Beasts back then!
    Anyone should be proud to have all of those Wins on their record.
    At this time FEDOR WAS UNTOUCHABLE! He Could Destroy Worlds!!!

    Then "The Legacy" gets tarnished........
    Around the time he was done whooping ass in Pride was pretty much the end of Sylvia/Arlovski trilogy. And Randy Couture was getting ready to step back into the UFC to show Big Timmay who the boss was.

    UFC needed Fedor at this time(and I'm sure this was one of the times that Dana & M-1 had some negotiating?) and if Fedor was psychic he would have known that He needed the UFC too.

    He could have gone on to do amazing things, but instead he did this:

    Matt Lindland(a fucking Middleweight for godsake) - beaten in 3 minutes.

    Hong Man Choi - With a huge record of 1-0 before fighting Fedor.
    Can't forget that the fight he had before Fedor lasted a whole 16 Seconds. LOTS OF EXPERIENCE!!!
    Fedor beats him in 2 minutes.

    Fedor or His Management pull their head out:

    Tim Sylvia - Timmay was still relevant at this point. He didn't make himself look like a fool yet.
    So it was good to see Fedor fight someone worthy again.
    Fedor beats him in 36 seconds(LIKE A BOSS!)

    Now Fedor starts Slipping:

    Andrei Arlovski - 15-5 at this point. No longer in the UFC but still fighting people with names(although some weren't as big as his).
    Fedor was getting outclassed in this fight. Andrei was just too fast for him & then Andrei got cocky & Fedor made him pay for it 3 minutes & 14 seconds into the fight.
    But a chink was in the armor of Fedor after that fight.

    Brett Rogers - 10-0 before fighting Fedor. With his most notable win over the man Fedor just knocked down from the sky, Andrei Arlovski.
    I was never on the Brett Rogers hype train. Too many cans to be fighting someone like Fedor.
    But then he goes on to laying a Whooping on Fedor for the 1st round.
    I was Impressed. But eventually Fedor would win... "Fedor always wins."
    And he did. But there was now even a bigger chink in his armor. And people were starting to notice.

    THE LOSSES:

    Fabricio Werdum - even with 3 losses to his name now I think Fedor would win this rematch 8 times out of 10.
    He go cocky and got in the guard of one the best Heavyweight Brazilian Jiu Jitsu specialist out there.

    Antonio Silva - 15-2 record at the time, with only 4 notable wins to his name.
    At this time(2/12/2011) Fedor shouldn't have been fighting someone with 4 notable wins to his name(one of those names in a Lower weight class).
    He should have been fighting someone with a 15-2 record that had 10 notable names to his record, like Frank Mir, or at least someone like a Cheick Kongo, Gabriel Gonzaga, or a Ben Rothwell.
    But Fedor goes on to fight a "lesser" opponent & SEVERELY gets his ass handed to him. It was Bad!!!
    Finally a Lose that No One can say "well he didn't really lose that fight."

    So what does one do that has lost 2 fights in a row from people he "should have won against" ?
    You fight someone in a lighter weight class.

    Dan Henderson - is a fucking beast, no matter how you cut it.
    27-8 record before the fight with Fedor. His loses all came from badass dudes that have made their mark in MMA.
    He combined all that he saw in Fedor's last 4 fights and brought that into this fight and won.
    Although I think it was called about 5 seconds before it should have been called, Hendo probably would have gone on to beat on Fedor some more and win.

    So with everything said and done:
    Fedor fought 9 Cans EARLY in his career(sounds like Most fighters).
    Also fought 2 good fighters, but they were in Lower weight classes.
    Then went on to fight 11 fighters that were pretty much on par with him for 4 years & Dominate! But he also fought 5 other Cans in that time frame too.
    Once PRIDE ends he fights 2 people "not worthy", 2 people on their downward spiral(which he started off for them), an Up And Comer, and then 3 Loses.

    The way I look at it Fedor has:
    13 REMARKABLE Wins.
    18 Worthless/Whatever Wins.
    and
    3 Loses
    with
    2 No Contests(the Cut from Kohsaka I consider a NC).

    Is a 13-3 Record bad? NO.
    Is a 17-3 Record bad? NO.(added Lindland, Arona, Sobral, & Rogers to it).
    Is Fedor gonna go down in History as one of the greatest MMA Fighters of All Time? Probably Not..
    Especially when you look at records like Chuck Liddell, Dan Henderson, Frank Mir, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz, Quinton Jackson, & Rich Franklin.
    Sorry Fedor, but Dan Henderson is the G.O.A.T.

    Favorite Fighter: JIM MILLER.
    Scariest Dude on the Planet: TYRONE SPONG.
    Other Favorites: Chris Lytle, Martin Kampmann, Joe Lauzon, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Conor McGregor, Paul Daley, Ross Pearson, Donald Cerrone, Renan Barao, Glover Texiera, & Alistair Overeem.

    "He doesn't write his own material. Some homo in Queens living in his mother's basement in his underwear is writing Chael's material for him." - DON FRYE.

  2. #2
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    Is Fedor gonna go down in History as one of the greatest MMA Fighters of All Time? Probably Not..
    Especially when you look at records like Chuck Liddell, Dan Henderson, Frank Mir, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz, Quinton Jackson, & Rich Franklin.
    oh please come on.
    Fedor will not be remembered as one of the GOATs but Frank Mir and Rich Franklin will? LOL

  3. #3
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    Great post !!! Finally some perspective !
    Win via Arm Triangle Rd 2 1:45 !!

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    omfg...yeah so 2 former UFC champs (blame FEDOR FOR ruining their career. yeah it's his fault they suck after Fedor sucked their souls out) and a top 10 ranked HW who was 10-0 with all 10 KOs in the last few years = cans... ARLOVSKI NEVER TOUCHED FEDOR EXCEPT FOR THAT THEEP THAT SET UP HIS OWN KO...THIS HAS BEEN F-ING ARGUED TO DEATH, WITH PICTURES AND SLOW MOTION REPLAYS, GET THIS THROUGH YOUR MOTHERF-ING HEAD...ARLOVSKI...DID...NOT...TOUCH...FEDOR!!!

    do you realize that during the years he was fighting there were almost no legit HWs in the world much less the UFC?

    your analysis is shit and revisionist history as you do not talk about the state of HWs in the MMA world...

    nor the fact that Mirko and Big Nog were the end all be all of HW MMA at the time Fedor destroyed Mirko on the feet and devoured Big Nog's soul on the ground...

    At this time(2/12/2011) Fedor shouldn't have been fighting someone with 4 notable wins to his name(one of those names in a Lower weight class).
    He should have been fighting someone with a 15-2 record that had 10 notable names to his record, like Frank Mir, or at least someone like a Cheick Kongo, Gabriel Gonzaga, or a Ben Rothwell.
    are you on crack rock? On 2/12/2011

    Frank Mir was 14-5...his two biggest ones were Brock (let's remember the rematch shall we?) and Big Nog who had a staph infection...

    Cheick Kongo was 15-6 with his biggest win against Cro Cop...and Paul Buentello?

    ...Ben Rothwell

    Tito Ortiz and Frank Mir...GOAT?
    Last edited by TheKidInside; 08-06-2011 at 12:30 PM.

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    You left Zulu off the list.

  6. #6

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    fedor will remain the goat in my eyes.. The only person i see passing him up soon could be anderson silva



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    I think you're definitely wrong. I don't believe that Fedor will be considered the GOAT ( the GOAT hasn't even started MMA yet in my opinion) but when you imply that he's isn't as credible as Chuck Liddell, Dan Henderson, Frank Mir, Anderson Silva, Tito Ortiz, Quinton Jackson, & Rich Franklin you don't do your argument any justice. Nobody on that list has a resume that stands up to criticism the likes of which you just put Fedor's through. The only person fighting right now in the UFC with a legitimate claim for GOAT consideration is GSP.

    And here's the intangible side of the argument. It's not just about Fedor's record and who he fought. IT'S HOW HE FOUGHT. Even in his defeats Fedor is a fearless fighter who leaves everything inside the ring/cage and never left the fans with complaints. He fights fighters at their strengths and wins. He fights with no regard for the potential of counter strikes from his looping punches. He is unrelenting. He dives into the guards of elite BJJ practioners. He never talks shit in the media. Every message he ever sent his opponents were sent via his strikes, his grappling and his submissions.

    He's a model of what all fighters, nay all men should aspire to be. Humble in both victory and defeat.

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    miguel torres > fedor on that list.

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    Fedor is ONE OF the GOAT, but not THE GOAT. Plain and simple. Yes he had a great career but he fought a lot of questionable opponents and that will always be held against him. His legacy would have been best served if he sat out rather than fighting Lindland, HMC, Zulu, Coleman 2x and everyone one of the other fighters on the "Who are you?" list. That's strictly speaking about his legacy though, you can't really fault him as a person or fighter for taking those fights, everyone needs to get paid and earn a living.

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    Fedor and Anderson=the GOATS

    Fedor clearly isn't the fighter he used to be, its 2011 you fucktards.

    10 years of dominance counts for alot more than some dumb fucking writer to scoff at, plus, most, or at least alot of fighters' records are filled with several no name opponents. Most of those were his first several fights. Are you suppost to be fighting top competetion in your very first pro fight? lol

    I think some of his fights were dumb after he was on the top, like zulzuhino and ogawa, but I also think its dumb that Randy Couture was headlining and coheadlining cards against Coleman and Toney. No problem with those fights for "The Natural" and "The UFC hall of famer", huh Dana!

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