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Thread: Protein Powder question

  1. #11
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    Luc1ans advice is solid. Besides calories will make you blow up more then the protein ever could on its own.

    Infact I'll hazard to say that whey protein is pretty good for keeping calories low while helping get in your protein needs.

    Hemp protein is for hippies. Also don't be afraid to get huUGE bro. Men should be big and strong. Leave the skinny bits to those with lady parts.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKidInside View Post
    for maintenance purposes you CONSUME 1 GRAM PER KILO GRAM of LEAN BODY MASS not a gram per pound...wow this ignorance keeps on spreading in the field...

    for recovery you consume 4:4:1 lean body mass: carb : protein ratio. so if you're 175 and lean body mass of 160, you consume 40 grams of carbs and 10 grams of protein. that's it. no stupid nonsense about 30-40 grams of protein. it's not bio-available..this is from experience working with MMA fighters, triathletes, Olympic lifting hopefuls.
    Unless your goal is to be a bodybuilder, this is the advice you should follow, plain and simple.

    1g of protein per lb of bodyweight is for recovering and gaining mass when you're lifting heavy on a regular basis. I'd wager 99% of people don't need, nor could even use, that much.

    Just try and find a lower calorie whey blend and take accordingly. If budget it no concern you could go with an isolate as it tends to be lower in calories but be advised that isolate absorbs faster and is best used for times immediately after training or in the morning perhaps.

    If I were you, I'd go for a whey blend and also pick up a bag of BCAA's. Put a serving of the BCAA's in your water or Gatorade G2, or whatever you drink during training. That, combined with moderate use of a whey blend will make sure you don't pack on any extra pounds but will keep you sufficiently recovered.
    "I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure" - Clarence Darrow

  3. #13
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    lmao @ the person linking bodybuilding.com and saying "nah, son".

    "don't be afraid to get huge"? you mean fat and puffy as we in the SnC industry call it "PMS" puffy muscle syndrome. that's not strength nor is it healthy, bro.

    hemp protein is very healthy, moreso than whey. 70% pea + 30% rice = most bioavailable protein out there bar none...

    ExRx.net • View topic - The Protein Debate

    that's what you should be reading, written by PhDs not some meathead who thinks overwhelming amounts of protein are somehow healthy...

    The closest any study has come to measuring something like this is a study by Tarnopolsky et al in 1992 (J. Appl. Physiol. 93(5): 1986, 1995) in which he showed that despite an estimated protein intake to maintain nitrogen balance being somewhere around 1.7 g protein/kg/d but that the synthetic of ALL body proteins (including muscle) was maximal at a protein intake of 1.4 g protein/kg/d, with no further increase up to 2.4 g protein/kg/d! It did appear that the RDA for protein was not sufficient to maximize the synthetic rate of body proteins. Hence, faced with these data I am not sure that one can argue that a protein intake of more than 1.4 g protein/kg/d is necessary or even beneficial for protein requiring process.
    I've about 100+ studies being a "student of the game" that demonstrate that anything over 9 grams of AAs after working out serves NO RECOVERY PURPOSES...

    as far as that goes I am 160 with 5.6 percent body fat and have done countless endurance obstacle course races and triathlons...as any CSCS will tell you "athletics > aesthetics"

    case in point



    further education could be found here. Steve Maxwell > you.

    http://www.maxwellsc.com/blog.cfm?blogID=95

    also

    In one study, there was a marked effect from only about 100 calories of total intake. A recent study in the American Journal of Physiology, Endocrinology & Metabolism involved a small post-exercise meal (10 g protein, 8 g carbohydrate, 3 g fat) either immediately (EARLY) or 3 hours (LATE) after 60 min of moderate-intensity exercise. The "EARLY" group showed nearly triple the rate of energy utilization and protein synthesis, resulting in significantly greater muscle gains. Interestingly, though essential amino acids were taken up by the muscles in the "EARLY" group, they were actually released from muscle in the "LATE" group (this implies muscle loss in the group that waited 3 hours before eating).
    you do realize that's from even more PhDs?
    Last edited by TheKidInside; 07-10-2012 at 05:35 PM.

  4. #14
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    Thanks for the great link, Kid. I was a lot more heavy into this topic and debate about ten years ago or so and reading that helps me realize that I don't really have my thumb on the pulse of current research any longer.

    Realzing that ultimately most of this information is not "set in stone", I firmly believe based upon what I do know and my 10+ years of working out and nutrional supplementation, that your recommendations are very sound and likely much more realistic than the old 1-2 g/lb of protein intake daily or bust mentality.

    What some people need to keep in mind is that the nutrional supplements industry is worth many millions of dollars annually and of course they want you to think you need copious amounts of protein and to buy more than you need. While proper nutrional supplemenation can be very beneficial, I believe that 90+% of your goals will be obtained through proper diet and training.
    "I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure" - Clarence Darrow

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKidInside View Post
    lmao @ the person linking bodybuilding.com and saying "nah, son".

    "don't be afraid to get huge"? you mean fat and puffy as we in the SnC industry call it "PMS" puffy muscle syndrome. that's not strength nor is it healthy, bro.

    hemp protein is very healthy, moreso than whey. 70% pea + 30% rice = most bioavailable protein out there bar none...

    ExRx.net • View topic - The Protein Debate

    that's what you should be reading, written by PhDs not some meathead who thinks overwhelming amounts of protein are somehow healthy...



    I've about 100+ studies being a "student of the game" that demonstrate that anything over 9 grams of AAs after working out serves NO RECOVERY PURPOSES...

    as far as that goes I am 160 with 5.6 percent body fat and have done countless endurance obstacle course races and triathlons...as any CSCS will tell you "athletics > aesthetics"

    case in point



    further education could be found here. Steve Maxwell > you.

    Steve Maxwell Strength & Conditioning

    also



    you do realize that's from even more PhDs?
    It's awesome your really lean.

    But what do you bench?

    How strong are you?

    Everyone has different goals I suppose.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRisCO View Post
    It's awesome your really lean.

    But what do you bench?

    How strong are you?

    Everyone has different goals I suppose.
    Hey Crisco, not trying to bust balls here or anything like that, but I've been around gyms way too long to not bite on this.

    I completely 100% agree that everybody has different goals, without a doubt, and if somebody wants to work on a heavy bench press then good for them, really. HOWEVER, the bench press is an extremely poor indicator of overall strenght and even more so overall fitness and/or health.

    Also, and I don't have a link I'm sorry, but research has shown that pound for pound, lighter athletes are actually proportionately stronger than their heavier peers. I remember a study where an Olympic male power lifter was compared to a female. Of course the male could lift more weight, he was about 3 time her size, but pound for pound the female was actually the stronger of the two.

    But like you said, different goals for different folks. Perhaps sheer strenght is a goal for somebody, but how much weight you can move is not generally a good indicator of how fit or healthy you are. There was a time when I could bench press 315lbs, but back then I couldn't have planked for more than a minute I bet. I used to warm up with 60lb dumbells for hammer curls and max on 90's, but couldn't have ran more than 10 minutes without feeling like I had a heart attack.

    Plus, DanC was talking about competeing at a lighter weight in terms of jujitsu (I think it was jujitsu), so I would assume flexibility, cardio, and core strenght would be more applicable to his situation than a bench press, and thus Kid's advice, IMO and experience, is good advice.
    "I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure" - Clarence Darrow

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear My Hammer Fist View Post
    Hey Crisco, not trying to bust balls here or anything like that, but I've been around gyms way too long to not bite on this.

    I completely 100% agree that everybody has different goals, without a doubt, and if somebody wants to work on a heavy bench press then good for them, really. HOWEVER, the bench press is an extremely poor indicator of overall strenght and even more so overall fitness and/or health.

    Also, and I don't have a link I'm sorry, but research has shown that pound for pound, lighter athletes are actually proportionately stronger than their heavier peers. I remember a study where an Olympic male power lifter was compared to a female. Of course the male could lift more weight, he was about 3 time her size, but pound for pound the female was actually the stronger of the two.

    But like you said, different goals for different folks. Perhaps sheer strenght is a goal for somebody, but how much weight you can move is not generally a good indicator of how fit or healthy you are. There was a time when I could bench press 315lbs, but back then I couldn't have planked for more than a minute I bet. I used to warm up with 60lb dumbells for hammer curls and max on 90's, but couldn't have ran more than 10 minutes without feeling like I had a heart attack.

    Plus, DanC was talking about competeing at a lighter weight in terms of jujitsu (I think it was jujitsu), so I would assume flexibility, cardio, and core strenght would be more applicable to his situation than a bench press, and thus Kid's advice, IMO and experience, is good advice.
    Agreed with what you said.

    I got off topic and neglected the actual subject that we where discussing.

    There are all different types of fitness for sure.

    For some people myself being one of them I'd probably take a 315 pound bench over being able to run a marathon.

    I of course have a love affair with 45 pound plates. I'd fuck them if it wasn't painful.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRisCO View Post
    It's awesome your really lean.

    But what do you bench?

    How strong are you?

    Everyone has different goals I suppose.
    I have gotten up to a full back and front lever on bar and rings, floor l-sit at 2+ minutes (gymnastic definition of mastery is 1 minute, CrossFit says 3 minutes but they are a tad nuts), full planche on floor, flat back tuck on rings, 30+ deadhang pull ups (at this point i no longer do pull ups deadhang but do them l-sit same as chin ups to invoke brachioradialis and bicep brachii), also 15+ bulgarian ring dips and about the same in the Korean dip variation on bar.

    weights:

    bench 1RM 285

    deadlift 1RM 310

    squat 1RM 275

    Press 1RM 170

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKidInside View Post
    I have gotten up to a full back and front lever on bar and rings, floor l-sit at 2+ minutes (gymnastic definition of mastery is 1 minute, CrossFit says 3 minutes but they are a tad nuts), full planche on floor, flat back tuck on rings, 30+ deadhang pull ups (at this point i no longer do pull ups deadhang but do them l-sit same as chin ups to invoke brachioradialis and bicep brachii), also 15+ bulgarian ring dips and about the same in the Korean dip variation on bar.

    weights:

    bench 1RM 285

    deadlift 1RM 310

    squat 1RM 275

    Press 1RM 170
    Impressive bro. Congratz.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear My Hammer Fist View Post
    Hey Crisco, not trying to bust balls here or anything like that, but I've been around gyms way too long to not bite on this.

    I completely 100% agree that everybody has different goals, without a doubt, and if somebody wants to work on a heavy bench press then good for them, really. HOWEVER, the bench press is an extremely poor indicator of overall strenght and even more so overall fitness and/or health.

    Also, and I don't have a link I'm sorry, but research has shown that pound for pound, lighter athletes are actually proportionately stronger than their heavier peers. I remember a study where an Olympic male power lifter was compared to a female. Of course the male could lift more weight, he was about 3 time her size, but pound for pound the female was actually the stronger of the two.

    But like you said, different goals for different folks. Perhaps sheer strenght is a goal for somebody, but how much weight you can move is not generally a good indicator of how fit or healthy you are. There was a time when I could bench press 315lbs, but back then I couldn't have planked for more than a minute I bet. I used to warm up with 60lb dumbells for hammer curls and max on 90's, but couldn't have ran more than 10 minutes without feeling like I had a heart attack.

    Plus, DanC was talking about competeing at a lighter weight in terms of jujitsu (I think it was jujitsu), so I would assume flexibility, cardio, and core strenght would be more applicable to his situation than a bench press, and thus Kid's advice, IMO and experience, is good advice.
    bravo!

    What some people need to keep in mind is that the nutrional supplements industry is worth many millions of dollars annually and of course they want you to think you need copious amounts of protein and to buy more than you need. While proper nutrional supplemenation can be very beneficial, I believe that 90+% of your goals will be obtained through proper diet and training.
    and this is the absolute truth! on MMA.tv SnC forum that is the general consensus especially about protein. all that 1 gram per POUND is ridiculous because science is conducted in KILOGRAMS (metric system not freaking imperial)

    as far as other dietary supplements it really depends on your diet because anything outside of organic produce is EXTREMELY devoid of nutrients (read a book called Naked Calories and they are 100,000% on point) so I'd say certain supplementation is necessary but depends on your blood, urine and stool tests (we do those in my nutrition practice).

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