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Thread: Jones vs. Belfort to Headline UFC 152 After Lyoto Machida Turns Down Title Shot

  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by RearNakedStroke View Post
    Thats not childish disdain. That is actually holding the UFC title to a high standard. So I will ask yet again. Was there ever talk about Sonnen fighting Jones in a non-title fight? Did this ever come up? How can I not get an answer on this? Do that many people actually think its more acceptable to give a guy a title shot just for being there?
    I think you're not getting an answer because none of us are sure. I haven't seen anything in the press about a non-title fight, but I also haven't search exhaustively.

    Though all of this is pointless for two reasons:

    1. Jones said he turned down the fight due to lack of preparation, not the legitimacy of Sonnen. So, no, you don't get to substitute Jones' explanation with one you prefer.

    2. Jones got his title shot with no legitimate top-10 wins. Period. He was a phenom even then and we all saw it. But he didn't earn it. He got it because no one else stepped up and DW saw something in him. The LEAST he could do is humor DW when the same situation arises while Jones is the title holder.

  2. #162
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    I think if it was a non title bout, I'd be more inclined to say Jones should have taken it.....don't get me wrong, I would have loved to see Jones smash Sonnen in one round and send him into retirement. but not with the Title on the line. Sonnen has done nothing to deserve a shot at that belt. If the division is really that lite, they need to let Jones move up to HW asap. He's cleaned it out with the exception of 2 or 3 fighters.
    Scarface: Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, and fuck you, I'm out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    I think you're not getting an answer because none of us are sure. I haven't seen anything in the press about a non-title fight, but I also haven't search exhaustively.

    Though all of this is pointless for two reasons:

    1. Jones said he turned down the fight due to lack of preparation, not the legitimacy of Sonnen. So, no, you don't get to substitute Jones' explanation with one you prefer.

    2. Jones got his title shot with no legitimate top-10 wins. Period. He was a phenom even then and we all saw it. But he didn't earn it. He got it because no one else stepped up and DW saw something in him. The LEAST he could do is humor DW when the same situation arises while Jones is the title holder.
    Pointless for two reasons?

    1. It doesn't matter what his reason for turning down the fight was if it was for the title. Sonnen didn't deserve a shot. Plain and simple. Every single fighter on the roster deserved a shot at the title more than Sonnen. Even guys that were 0-1 in the weight class.

    2. Jones got his title shot after actually fighting in the division. His awesome record in said division doesn't even need to be mentioned, because like I said, he actually fought in the division.
    "He's got big balls. I like that." -Josh Koschek on Frank Trigg's balls.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by RearNakedStroke View Post
    Pointless for two reasons?

    1. It doesn't matter what his reason for turning down the fight was if it was for the title. Sonnen didn't deserve a shot. Plain and simple. Every single fighter on the roster deserved a shot at the title more than Sonnen. Even guys that were 0-1 in the weight class.
    It does matter. You said "Thats not childish disdain. That is actually holding the UFC title to a high standard." You suggested that Jones turned down the fight out of some higher virtue. He didn't. He said why he turned down the fight and it wasn't the reason you wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by RearNakedStroke View Post
    2. Jones got his title shot after actually fighting in the division. His awesome record in said division doesn't even need to be mentioned, because like I said, he actually fought in the division.
    Again, given the fact that Jones was not asked to fight a top fighter, wasn't asked to prove himself, he should be wary of making any argument about who deserves what. That's my point, though you certainly have a good point about Sonnen not fighting at LHW in the UFC. Of course, as I noted, it's pointless because Jones turned down the fight for an entirely different reason.

    So, to clarify, your point seemed to be that Jones was "holding the UFC title to a high standard." If I got that wrong or misunderstood you, my apologies. But if I didn't, then you're arguing something that just isn't true. Jones turned down the fight for lack of preparation, not because he was holding it to a higher standard.

    Of course, my tone has nothing to do with you. I like your posts and I think I agree with you a lot of the time. But as a guy who works crazy hours trying to turn a startup company into something big and "mainstream," it pisses me off that Jones won't man up and just fight to keep a card and let the UFC save face. They're trying to go mainstream and that stands to benefit him as well as many other people. He's a dick for being so callous.


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    And if you want beef, then bring the ruckus

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeodd2 View Post
    Sonnen has done nothing to deserve a shot at that belt.
    To step up, and take the fight on eight days notice with a beast like Jones to save the event...Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeodd2 View Post
    If the division is really that lite, they need to let Jones move up to HW asap. He's cleaned it out with the exception of 2 or 3 fighters.
    They? Who are they?

    If Jones wants the move up, that is up to him..
    Last edited by captonion; 08-25-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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    That's taking shit WAAAAAAAAAAY the fuck out of context. He spoke about how there were more deserving 205 contenders in the division and that he would NOT just agree to give Chael a shot at his title because he knows how to run his mouth. Now if Chael became the #1 contender, of course Jones would face him. He's faced ALL the #1 contenders the UFC had put in front of him. Anyone listens to the entire clip should be smart enough to put that statement into it's proper context. This isn't politics for Christ's Sake!
    Scarface: Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, and fuck you, I'm out!

    "I don't call the fighting in my films 'violent', I call it 'action'. An action film borders between fantasy and reality. If I were to be completely realistic in my films, you would call me a violent, bloody man. I would simply destroy my opponent by tearing his guts out. I wouldn't do it so artistically." ~Bruce Lee


  8. #169
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    Well at least he has a career in politics after his fighting career is done.
    My Favorite Fighters

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  9. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    2. Jones got his title shot with no legitimate top-10 wins. Period. He was a phenom even then and we all saw it. But he didn't earn it. He got it because no one else stepped up and DW saw something in him. The LEAST he could do is humor DW when the same situation arises while Jones is the title holder.
    uhm...having a record of 0-1 as a UFC LHW and a record of 6-1 with the 1 being a DQ is far from "the same situation." Not even close. Bader was a great win, his undefeated status had him ranked on many sites and minimally had him on the fringes of most good rankings. If Bader had gotten a win over Jones for that fight, he'd already have fought for the title by now.

    So no, that's not going to cut it, for me. sonnen was willing to shake his moneymaker, and uncle dana likes money. there were no similarities between the two scenarios.

    In all sincerity, I hope Jones survives this. I don't see him as particularly emotionally stable. I don't him, but I don't really see him having any strong sense of identity beyond being a champion, and this is killing that PR. I hope I'm wrong, and that he's stronger than I think he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by captonion View Post
    To step up, and take the fight on eight days notice with a beast like Jones to save the event...Why not?
    ...I dunno...maybe because title shots have a fairly strong tradition of being earned...you know, with at least one win in a row in a given weight class. Hell, even Kenny Florian wasn't getting shots without one win.

    For the money, I'd fight Jones on 8 days notice. I've been hit with baseball bats, I doubt Jones could hurt me worse than that. Does that mean I've earned a LHW title shot? I've got a better UFC LHW record than sonnen, after all. Way better, in fact.

    rh
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