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Thread: For B.J. Penn, 'out-of-shape' comments, legacy provide motivation to fight Rory

  1. #61
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    I seem to remember Diaz dominating BJ after the first round....maybe I imagined that.
    Jones Era >> Machida Era
    Favorite fighters: Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, Michael Johnson, Jose Aldo, Chris Weidman.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CtGreat View Post
    I seem to remember Diaz dominating BJ after the first round....maybe I imagined that.
    Naw, you're correct.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I think that's up for debate as well.

    I know the judges didn't give Penn any rounds, but I'd say rounds 1 or 3 could have gone either way or easily been 10/10s. Again, the judges didn't give him the first fight, when I thought he won it pretty obviously. One of the judges actually gave Frankie all 5 rounds in the first bout, so I'm reluctant to take that as worth much.

    rh
    Not to be douche but most of this is your own opinion. Not what actually happened. Frankie won all rounds on all judges scorecards, what you, I or the next guy "Thinks" it "should" have been scored is irrelavant. Im my respectful opinion.

    I gave Frankie all 5 rounds. Im sure that doesnt mean shit to you though lol.

    Penn certainly looked worse at the close of the third in both Diaz and Fitch than he did at the close of the second Edgar bout, in my opinion.
    I can agree to a certain extent, but its difficult to judge another fighter performance off their opponents looks, Especially someone like Penn who never looks like hes hurt/rocked and hardly ever bleeds.

    But yeah Penn was fucked up at the end of both those fights. It doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

    But here's another question, and I'm not even overtly being a dick here: Can you compare 5 rounders to 3 rounders? I think if either of the Diaz or Fitch bouts went another 10 minutes, Penn could have been finished...and that's coming from a Penn fan.
    I think we as fans almost have to. How can we discuss how a champ will do against the contender if the contender hasnt ever had a 5 round fight? We do it almost everyday on here.

    To JUST compare 5rounders with other 5 rounders only is completley neglecting said fighters performance in all his 3round fights, Which for most people are more common then 5 round fights.

    I also think the philosophy forming fight plans for a 3 rounder is different than a 5 rounder.
    Agree. It could be looked at like Edgar fought the "better/harder trained" Bj Penn because he was ready and training for a 5 round fight.

    The whole concept is subjective.

    The original statement that Penn could beat Frankie by taking him down was inaccurately worded, but the philosphy isn't entirely off base. Penn absolutely has the skills to beat Frankie, but he wasn't planning fights at that point. If Penn came in with an actual plan for a third bout,?
    Sorry dude but thats all an excuse.
    "He has the skills to beat him", well he had two seperate tries and failed both times. If I said Faber has all the tools to beat Cruz, would I be wrong? Cuz technically im sure he does, just the facts/stats dont point to that outcome.

    Technically Penn has the skills to beat anyone. Never been rocked or dropped, amazing hands, outstanding JJ and has never been tapped out. Fact is though he doesnt use it all. And thats his fault. Not something to give him credit for.

    "Well he was slack that time, if he wasnt so slack he would win"(exageration of what you said) is weak as hell imo. Give Frankie his dues.

    "He wasnt planning fights at that point", How exactly do you know this? Even so, sucks to be him for underestimating his opponent. Again this gets no extra "cred" from me. These should be considered Flaws of Penns, not Merits.

    there is absolutely no guarantee that Frankie would win it, is there
    I cant think of any #1 and #2 guy in any division having the same outcome 10 out of 10 times. But with that said the same could be said for Penn..and I bet the stats would heavily lean towards Frankie if god forbid a 3rd match happened.

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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by LefthookStcrook View Post
    Not to be douche but most of this is your own opinion. Not what actually happened. Frankie won all rounds on all judges scorecards, what you, I or the next guy "Thinks" it "should" have been scored is irrelavant. Im my respectful opinion.

    I gave Frankie all 5 rounds. Im sure that doesnt mean shit to you though lol.
    You might note that I said it's up for debate, and clearly stated it as opinion.

    But I think it's funny that you're willing to use Fightmetric to "prove" a point in one post, and yet ignore it's findings in another, in the same thread.

    But all of your conjecture regarding comparing 3rounders to 5rounders is again, up for debate.

    Sorry dude but thats all an excuse.
    "He has the skills to beat him", well he had two seperate tries and failed both times. If I said Faber has all the tools to beat Cruz, would I be wrong? Cuz technically im sure he does, just the facts/stats dont point to that outcome.
    Sorry dude, but it isn't.

    It's an opinion. I'm not trying to excuse the loss, or pretend that it didn't happen. I'm stating an opinion...kind of like I'm stating that my opinion of your reading comprehension is dropping as your postcount goes up. Your hash of my statements in an attempt to paraphrase them is way off.

    "He wasnt planning fights at that point", How exactly do you know this?
    Because he's stated in interviews that the first fight he ever actually planned for was the Fitch fight. Go back to fightmetric if you need help figuring out which one came first.

    Even so, sucks to be him for underestimating his opponent. Again this gets no extra "cred" from me. These should be considered Flaws of Penns, not Merits.
    I'm not looking to give Penn any credit, or to have a hater suddenly convert. I'm stating pretty simple facts. One guy hates John Jones for having double-digit reach advantages, one guy loves the fact that he's got them...there are always going to be ways to interpret/misinterpret information.

    Penn not planning a specific fight plan isn't necessarily underestimating anyone. It's just not following a school of thought that other fighters do. Not everyone is the same: GSP trains year round, never gets out of fighting shape; Anderson takes time off and often balloons up 50lbs over his weightclass...it doesn't mean that one way is better than the other, does it?

    I cant think of any #1 and #2 guy in any division having the same outcome 10 out of 10 times. But with that said the same could be said for Penn..and I bet the stats would heavily lean towards Frankie if god forbid a 3rd match happened.
    God forbid a 3rd match? I'd love to see one, even if I'd have Frankie favored to win a second time. I thought both fights were great.

    rh
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  5. #65
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    Pretty funny. I don't even like Penn at all and even I can admit both fights were really close, the first being the most questionable.

  6. #66
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    BJ will go down as one of the best ever, no doubt... He may not be on the level with an Anderson, GSP, Fedor, but he is right behind them...

    His skill on paper can match up with anyone.

  7. #67
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    And if you want beef, then bring the ruckus

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