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Thread: White says Anderson Silva vs. Chris Weidman is 'closer than people think'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    Not alone on that one, I can see a very realistic scenario where he loses pretty bad to Anderson, tries to bounce back with a big fight like Vitor, loses and there he goes into obscurity...
    Based off of this I would have to say you are a fan who watches without understanding exactly what's going on on a technical level. Chris's grappling skills are at an extremely high level, he is proficient at striking and is a young, big, athletic man. Win or lose vs Anderson, there is no way a healthy weidman fades "into obscurity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by optimusjoel View Post
    Based off of this I would have to say you are a fan who watches without understanding exactly what's going on on a technical level. Chris's grappling skills are at an extremely high level, he is proficient at striking and is a young, big, athletic man. Win or lose vs Anderson, there is no way a healthy weidman fades "into obscurity".
    That is a pretty gargantuan assumption on your part. I realize Ive only been a fan of the sport since I watched UFC 1 on a VHS tape at the age of 10 and haven't stopped watching since. Unlike most who consider Frank Shamrock the first true mixed martial artist to emerge in the UFC, I believe Marco Ruas is without a doubt the first, he came in UFC 7 with an unstoppable Muay Thai and a solid background in grappling and BJJ and won it easily with the first leg kick clinic in MMA history over the Polar Bear Varelans, only he didnt return for UFC 8 as he didnt see it as much of a challenge. Well, watching all these events got me curious so I started practicing Judo and then a little later BJJ. Well all that aside, I have been a boxing enthusiast for as far back as I can remember, Ive gone as far as watching Jack Dempsey title fights from back in the 20s (which I recommend btw, after a knockdown the ref didn't separate the guys, so as soon as someone got up it was fair game to knock them right back down). Anyway, you are right though I'm a pretty casual fan, who watches it without really understanding the sport, as a matter of fact I still think Kimbo Slice is the greatest fighter out there, I have no idea as to why he got cut...

    Man, I feel like a douchebag... but I dont really accuse anyone of being ignorant of the sport who is in this forum, since I imagine there are no casual fans around here...

    Munoz only a year ago was the big bad wrestler that was going to terrorize Anderson Silva, and now I would say he is fading. And that is after only one bad loss to Weidman, you slap another loss on his resume and he will fade a lot more. So, I would give Weidman the same odds people gave Okami against Silva, which is pretty terrible... So my point remains that if he loses that fight (which lets face it is the most likely scenario) and then loses to a guy like Belfort (not as likely but very possible), I think he would fade a bit, much like it happened to Munoz, who was Weidman about 6 months ago...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    That is a pretty gargantuan assumption on your part. I realize Ive only been a fan of the sport since I watched UFC 1 on a VHS tape at the age of 10 and haven't stopped watching since. Unlike most who consider Frank Shamrock the first true mixed martial artist to emerge in the UFC, I believe Marco Ruas is without a doubt the first, he came in UFC 7 with an unstoppable Muay Thai and a solid background in grappling and BJJ and won it easily with the first leg kick clinic in MMA history over the Polar Bear Varelans, only he didnt return for UFC 8 as he didnt see it as much of a challenge. Well, watching all these events got me curious so I started practicing Judo and then a little later BJJ. Well all that aside, I have been a boxing enthusiast for as far back as I can remember, Ive gone as far as watching Jack Dempsey title fights from back in the 20s (which I recommend btw, after a knockdown the ref didn't separate the guys, so as soon as someone got up it was fair game to knock them right back down). Anyway, you are right though I'm a pretty casual fan, who watches it without really understanding the sport, as a matter of fact I still think Kimbo Slice is the greatest fighter out there, I have no idea as to why he got cut...

    Man, I feel like a douchebag... but I dont really accuse anyone of being ignorant of the sport who is in this forum, since I imagine there are no casual fans around here...

    Munoz only a year ago was the big bad wrestler that was going to terrorize Anderson Silva, and now I would say he is fading. And that is after only one bad loss to Weidman, you slap another loss on his resume and he will fade a lot more. So, I would give Weidman the same odds people gave Okami against Silva, which is pretty terrible... So my point remains that if he loses that fight (which lets face it is the most likely scenario) and then loses to a guy like Belfort (not as likely but very possible), I think he would fade a bit, much like it happened to Munoz, who was Weidman about 6 months ago...
    Shame on you, coming from a grappling back ground and not appreciating how good Chris is on the ground? Insane.

    I'm curious to where some of this is coming from, such as "Munoz only a year ago was the big bad wrestler that was going to terrorize Anderson Silva". Never heard anyone say that, but I really never heard anyone think that Munoz wasn't good until Weidman title talk came up. Hopefully you can see where I'm going with that one.

    "Man, I feel like a douchebag... but I dont really accuse anyone of being ignorant of the sport who is in this forum, since I imagine there are no casual fans around here..." Good thing you didn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    Munoz only a year ago was the big bad wrestler that was going to terrorize Anderson Silva, and now I would say he is fading. And that is after only one bad loss to Weidman, you slap another loss on his resume and he will fade a lot more.
    If he's fading, it's due to inactivity. He hasn't fought since that fight.

    It sounds like you're trying to make an argument about a mental downward spiral after suffering a loss but I don't think you can say anything after one loss. Sure, his notoriety amongst many fans has probably faded, but I'm not sure what that has to do with his ability to win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H0SS View Post
    First of all, let me state that we were discussing which division (MW or WW) was tougher/deeper/more talented. Therefore, pointing out that some of the top guys at MW have lost to the top guys at WW helps strengthen that argument. You pointing out some LW fighters who have wins over WW fighters doesn't carry as much weight since most people regard LW as the toughest division in the UFC.
    Most of those LW's I mentioned aren't in the UFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by H0SS View Post
    Now, as far Matt Serra goes... he's not a top ten fighter. He didn't earn his title shot by working his way up the rankings. He got it by winning the reality show. And although he does hold a victory over GSP, I don't think anyone is ever going to accuse him of being a better fighter than Georges.
    Sometimes people get caught... just ask Anderson how he did against WW Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase. Sometimes shit happens. And if we're going to compare embarrassing losses on people's records, Chael...
    No one thinks Serra is a better fighter then GSP just like no one thinks Shields is a better fighter then Hendo(I hope). Also, everyone talks about how deep LHW is and Hendo is currently #2 there. Where are the fighters that GSP beats who decide to move up in weight?


    Quote Originally Posted by H0SS View Post
    Everyone is coming off losses? You mean Fitch didn't beat Erick Silva? Ellenberger didn't pick up a win over Jay Hieron? Shields victory-turned-no-contest means he lost to Ed Herman? Rory didn't destroy BJ?

    I realize this argument is very subjective, so maybe we should just post a poll and see what the results are. I'm actually curious now, because I really wasn't expecting people to disagree with me about WW being tougher.
    By coming off of losses I mean they recently lost fights, doesn't have to be the last one. Ellenberger just got KO'ed by Kampmann, Kampmann and Fitch got KO'ed by Hendricks. Being 1 fight removed from brutal 1st round KO's allows guys to stay top contenders?

    I hear people say the WW's are tougher all the time; I get the feeling it's one of those things people just keep saying so often that now everyone believes it. Really, I don't care what others think. Belfort, Hendo, and Franklin alone are more accomplished and more well-rounded then anyone who has fought at WW outside of GSP, Penn, and Hughes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2JUBAE View Post
    I could be wrong, I don't know. The MW division is pretty talented, it always looks like the weakest division, but that's due to how Anderson makes the top MW contenders look. Chris could be the man, but I just don't see it.
    Dude you are not wrong and Vitor would destroy Weidman. That fight wouldn't even make it to the 2nd round.

    Also if noone has heard it lately.... Weidman beat a raggedy assed Munoz kinda like Griffin beating a raggedy ass Shogun. I bet the rematches would look similiar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    If he's fading, it's due to inactivity. He hasn't fought since that fight.

    It sounds like you're trying to make an argument about a mental downward spiral after suffering a loss but I don't think you can say anything after one loss. Sure, his notoriety amongst many fans has probably faded, but I'm not sure what that has to do with his ability to win.
    All I was saying was that fighting Silva right now is a risky fight for Weidman. The odds of him winning are very slim (all personal preference aside) and then you add the fact he is coming off what will be a one year lay off and injury, makes his shot at winning even smaller. So why not build his name some more and have more to fall back on after (potentially) losing to Silva. So, losing to Silva right now, a lot of people will be quick to say he wasn't all that good to begin with, but if he beats say Belfort and then loses to Silva well then he is just another great fighter who fell short against Silva. That's all I was saying.

    Now on the WW vs MW debate, some people were saying that maybe the top 5 of both divisions are comparable but WW has a deeper pool. Well, Rousimar Palhares is currently ranked at around 27th, not sure I would agree with that, but it just goes to show how deep the MW division is, cause that dude is a beast of a fighter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optimusjoel View Post
    I'm curious to where some of this is coming from, such as "Munoz only a year ago was the big bad wrestler that was going to terrorize Anderson Silva". Never heard anyone say that, but I really never heard anyone think that Munoz wasn't good until Weidman title talk came up. Hopefully you can see where I'm going with that one.
    Munoz has been dismissed by people who don't want to see Anderson face Chris as overrated. He's been criticized by soares, Bisping, and a bunch of clowns on the internet. All of those opinions are ridiculously biased, and none of them matter, unless you're dumb enough to believe them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    If he's fading, it's due to inactivity. He hasn't fought since that fight.
    Inactivity + a dedicated campaign to remove Weidman from contention by slandering a great win. It's a perfect storm of bullshit that nobody smart will get caught out in.

    Back to the point 'Joel made about 'lazer being mistaken:
    It doesn't matter how long you've been watching MMA, if you assume that Munoz is done after one fight, if you assume that Weidman will fade into obscurity simply because he loses to Anderson, you really don't know what you're talking about.

    The longevity of your interest, the size of your DVD collection, the amount of time you spend in the gym does not always equate to understanding a goddamn thing.

    Weidman is a kid. Anderson will probably beat him if they fight this year: I'd take Anderson 7 out of 10 times. But Weidman has an enormously bright future, and if he continues to apply himself and improve at the current pace he's set, he's going nowhere near obscurity. A brush with fame could cause him to flake mentally/emotionally, sure; but that's a long shot, and one that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a potential loss to Anderson.

    I think one of the best things you can say about Chris and his potential is to point out the fact that Anderson himself has said he doesn't want to fight him. Not soares, not one of the other braindeads on Anderson's staff, but the champion himself.

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    Ed Soares: We recommend, but UFC ultimately chooses Anderson Silva's opponent

    Ed Soares: We recommend, but UFC ultimately chooses Anderson Silva's opponent | News

    "Sometimes people ask me, and I just say what's on my mind at the time," Soares told MMAjunkie.com (UFC blog for UFC news, UFC rumors, fighter interviews and event previews/recaps). "I'm just mentioning things. It's not like I'm stepping in there and demanding things from (UFC President) Dana (White). It's not that sort of relationship I have with them."

    Silva, the most dominant fighter and biggest name in the sport today, obviously has some pull in the matchmaking process. That's why fans are quick to blame him and Soares for things, including the believed snubbing of undefeated contender Weidman, who's pining for a shot at the champ.

    In fact, Soares said he ran into Weidman this past weekend at UFC on FOX 6 in Chicago, and the New Yorker mixed in some humor with his stump speech.

    "He was pretty funny about it and said, 'I'll fight him in Brazil, and I'll even give Anderson a rematch in New York,'" he said.

    Soares, though, said they offer the UFC input. But ultimately, they want everyone – UFC officials, included – on board with the choice of opponent.

    "We suggest some things that we think, and they tell us what they think, and we try to find something that works for everyone," he said. "But at the end of the day – and it's not just with Anderson, but all of our athletes – we've always fought. They get in there and perform.

    "Anderson has never chosen his opponent, never picked his opponent. Whoever the UFC put in front of him, he always accepted."

    But what about White's public criticism and his belief that Soares is "playing the game," as the fight executive often says.

    "I have a good relationship with Dana," he said. "Those types of things don't bother me."

    White threw a curveball on Thursday when he said he'd consider former light-heavyweight champion Evans, who's also Saturday's UFC 156 co-headliner, a potential option for Silva at 185 pounds.

    Soares said he doesn't care where the challenges come from. A few months shy of his 38th birthday, Silva only has so many fights left, and Soares just wants to assure they make the most of them.

    "I'd like to see Anderson fight a half dozen more times, but we have to take it each step one day at a time," he said. "At the end of the day, it's his decision, but definitely I'd love to see him leave undefeated in the UFC and the middleweight champion of the world.

    "To me, he's the greatest fight of all time, and I'd like to see him leave that way."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bork_Lazer View Post
    All I was saying was that fighting Silva right now is a risky fight for Weidman. The odds of him winning are very slim (all personal preference aside) and then you add the fact he is coming off what will be a one year lay off and injury, makes his shot at winning even smaller. So why not build his name some more and have more to fall back on after (potentially) losing to Silva. So, losing to Silva right now, a lot of people will be quick to say he wasn't all that good to begin with, but if he beats say Belfort and then loses to Silva well then he is just another great fighter who fell short against Silva. That's all I was saying.
    I was responding to your comment about Munoz fading. It just doesn't make sense; he lost one fight, that's it. Maybe he'll fade, maybe he won't. But we can't tell after one fight and a layoff.
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    Either that or some cooter-crabs.
    It's gonna be a good weekend

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