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Thread: matt brown vs. thiago alves slated for FOX sports 1 debut card

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    Adambomb to say Brown isn't on the rise is insane! Now who's going to win is debatable.
    Alves hasn't shown anything what he use to be. I do agree the best Alves would beat the best Brown, but Alves doesn't have a time machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lwbrewer View Post
    Adambomb to say Brown isn't on the rise is insane! Now who's going to win is debatable.
    Alves hasn't shown anything what he use to be. I do agree the best Alves would beat the best Brown, but Alves doesn't have a time machine.
    Alves just went toe-to-toe & won rounds against a top 10 opponent last year. He showed more skill in that fight than Brown ever has. He doesn't need a time machine.

    There's no comparison in the level of competition these guys have faced. For Brown to be relevant he would need to beat someone relevant. Is everyone forgetting he lost to Seth Baczynski at the end of 2011? The guy has crushed 5 cans in 15 months. He didn't suddenly turn into a contender after clinging to a roster spot within a year and a half. There's no historical precedent for that. It's not like Brown is some young guy vastly improving as he gains experience. He's 32 & has been fighting since 2005. At this point he is what he is.
    “Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”

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    I agree adambomb "he is what he is!" Which is an extremely exciting fighter who brings it. People can improve in there thirties. I tell myself that every day. Mike Swick and Jordan Mein are not cans and wonder boy was a hot prospect. These were UFC fighters not guys at the local bar.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adambomb View Post
    Alves just went toe-to-toe & won rounds against a top 10 opponent last year. He showed more skill in that fight than Brown ever has. He doesn't need a time machine.
    ...and he lost.

    The point you're missing is that the Kampmann fight was Alves' fight to win. The Alves of 5 years ago would have walked through Kampmann--styles make fights and Martin has always struggled with guys who come right at him. Instead, the effectiveness of Thiago's striking was down, and his grappling was mediocre, and he lost.

    It was Alves' fight to win, just as the Brown fight is. But fights against Brown were Swick's fight to win, and Mein's fight to win as well. I don't think either of them are appreciably worse than a 2012-13 Alves, but time will tell.

    There's no comparison in the level of competition these guys have faced. For Brown to be relevant he would need to beat someone relevant.
    I'm not arguing that Brown is particularly relevant. I'm saying Alves has yet to show that he's any more relevant in 2013 than Brown is.

    Is everyone forgetting he lost to Seth Baczynski at the end of 2011?
    Are you forgetting that Alves lost to Rick Story in 2010? Do you not see that he's literally fighting for his job here? If he gets beat by a gatekeeper in Brown, I can't see zuffa keeping him, unless dana's hardon for Fitch was worse than anyone anticipated. Fitch went something like 6-2-1 since facing GSP, and lost two out of his last three, with his one win a FOTN. Alves is something like 2-3--sp obviously a loss to Brown would put him at 2-4--and has already lost 2 out of his last 3, so a loss to Brown would be 3 out of the last 4. I can't see zuffa keeping him if that happens. I don't think he was making the money Fitch was, but I believe he's 35-40k to show or something.

    So yes, Brown hasn't beaten anyone great. But Alves hasn't beaten anyone great in at least 5 years. Winning two rounds against Kampmann would mean something if he'd finished him, styles being what they are.

    The guy has crushed 5 cans in 15 months. He didn't suddenly turn into a contender after clinging to a roster spot within a year and a half. There's no historical precedent for that. It's not like Brown is some young guy vastly improving as he gains experience. He's 32 & has been fighting since 2005. At this point he is what he is.
    While I wouldn't put Swick in with your cans, I'm not saying Brown is close to a title shot. He's close to getting top 10, top 5 fights to earn a title shot. But if anyone is "clinging to a roster spot" here, it's not Brown.

    Alves can beat him, but how many times have we heard "if only the old [Tito, Shamrock, Chuck, Randy, Fedor, lesnar, Penn, insert fighter here] shows up, it's a done deal. Alves might even walk through him, it's a great test for Brown. But I think Alves is trying to prove something as much as Brown is...maybe more, if his job is actually on the line.

    rh
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    I love this fight. It's a slight rise in competition of Brown, and a good marker to see where he will truly stand amongst the WW's. Same goes for Alves. Brown is gonna test him and we are going to see exactly where Alves stands as well. This is a great test for both fighters.

    My mind says Alves for the win, but my heart say BROWN! WAR THE IMMORTAL!

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    Hell yes, this is a solid fight as far as fireworks go. Not sure about how much sense it makes rankings wise either, but I don't even care.
    A tiger never loses sleep over the opinion of sheep.


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    Ranking wise I see it as a surging middle of the pack against a stumbled past contender were a dominate win or loss will have big effects with the company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lwbrewer View Post
    Ranking wise I see it as a surging middle of the pack against a stumbled past contender were a dominate win or loss will have big effects with the company.
    You could have said very nearly the same thing about Alves vs. Hughes back in 2008: an untested fighter with momentum facing an opponent who has pretty clearly lost a step. Of course, you could also say that Alves came in fat to face a declining Hughes when Matt accepted the fight on short notice.



    I'll admit that I'm biased. I've never really bought into the Alves hype. I also feel that more stringent procedure to test for substances coincided with his drop-off...correlation doesn't equal causation, but the coincidence is there, for what it's worth. I think the layoff and injuries have potential to play a significant role here as well; not to mention Alves' weight. He'd worked with dolce to be more accurate and effective in cutting from 200+ [which is just one of the reason's I'm biased against him] but that was when he was still fighting twice a year. If he's ballooned up at all, he may be trusting Dolce to work unworkable magic.

    He may surprise me, he's certainly not unskilled, and on paper it looks like his fight to win. But I think it has potential to be much more competative than that.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    Again, I will mention the two knee surgeries last year.

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