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Thread: Davis vs. Machida: Fight Metrics at odds with official score

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    Lyoto Machida: “I’m in a state of shock.”

    http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2013/08/...tate-of-shock/

    Going in to UFC 163, light heavyweight Lyoto Machida had been promised a pair of title-shots after previous victories and seemed certain to lock up an opportunity at winning the belt with a win over Phil Davis. And, up until the moment the scorecards were read, it looked as though Machida was destined to do just that after a solid showing against the decorated wrestler. However, the rug was quickly pulled out from under Machida when “Mr. Wonderful” was awarded a Unanimous Decision, leaving the 35-year old to question what else he could have done outside of finish Davis to have earned the officials’ favor.

    In an interview with MMAFighting moments removed from the rumble, Machida remained confused about the way things went down, calling for a second shot at Davis to prove he truly is the better man.

    “I’m in a state of shock. I don’t agree with this result. That’s all I can say,” said the baffled Brazilian. “I don’t know what happened. I don’t know what the judges saw.”

    “I’m very unhappy with MMA rules and UFC referee. I don’t think they prepare enough for the fight,” Machida continued. “If UFC can, I would like a rematch with Phil Davis because I want to prove I can beat him.”
    The loss snapped a two-fight winning streak for Machida and dropped his record to 6-4 in his last ten tilts.
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  2. #32
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    If Weidman beats Silva in the rematch, Machida should drop to MW.

    EDIT: Unless him and Jacara or Munoz can't fight each other because they're cuddle buddies or some shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sick_Lunatic View Post
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    Should offset that debacle of a win he holds over shogun.
    I would have thought that was offset when rampage got a bullshit gift decision. But maybe that was offset by the win Machida got in the Henderson draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trustym2 View Post
    I think he was right on the button. Machida is predictable now and fighters and judges are figuring him out, hence his loss here and the split decisions he's been having lately with the tougher opponents.
    He's not right on the button. Not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masscore View Post
    Maybe you should learn how they actually score fights and you won't be "shocked" by the decisions any more.
    Says the guy who talks about "offensive striking" counting. That's not part of any official scoring, kid.

    Whether you like it or not takedowns count for a lot in MMA. As they should since they show effective grappling, aggression and octagon control. Scoring criteria the judges are told to use.
    Going 2 for 9 and getting reversed does NOT show any of the things you think it does. It shows ineffective grappling, ineffective aggression and lack of octagon control.

    Quote Originally Posted by earle View Post
    It wasn't a robbery, the fight was close, so I have no problem with Davis getting the nod. He did land more strikes total, which does count for a lot unfortunately, don't blame me, those are the rules.
    Effective striking. Machida landed a higher percentage, landed the harder, more effective shots--actually had Davis wobbled--that's more effective than throwing and missing more.

    Officially Davis had two takedowns and Machida had none, so we can't really say Machida won that department either.
    Davis wiffed on 80% of his attempts, and did nothing with the ones he scored--he actually got reversed once. So I'd say Machida was the more effective grappler.
    Maybe an argument could be made for Machida in terms of Octagon control, but that's hardly enough to say he earned a UD. It looks like two of the judges could have got it right, while Chris Watts seems out to lunch.
    He absolutely had octagon control for 85% of that fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masscore View Post
    Remember the guy who is constantly attacking is going to get the nod.
    Not because he deserves it, because judging is inconsistent and inept.

    Even missing on a takedown is still showing agression and octagon control.
    It's not showing EFFECTIVE aggression, and it's NOT showing octagon control. The fighter being stuffed is actually being controlled. Go back to Swick/Burkman for details. That fight was judged correctly, this one was not.

    People tend to forget that there is a huge risk going for takedowns. How many times have seen well timed knees or guillotine chokes end fights? Make legit attempts at takedowns is always a risk and a fighter deserves to be rewarded for the risk.
    There is huge risk in throwing a kick. There is huge risk in stepping into the cage. You can't single out one aspect of a complex sport and say that it's more important than any other aspect and should be rewarded more. Actually, you can do that...but it makes you biased and unrealistic.

    Fighters deserve to be rewarded for being successful and effective. Fighters deserve consistent and adept judging. That wasn't present for this fight.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masscore View Post
    Machida didn't do enough offensive striking in the rounds 1 and 2 to distance himself enough from Davis to keep the takedowns from not mattering. Since the striking was fairly close when Davis scored the late takedowns it took the round away from Machida. He fought the gameplan he had to fight in order to beat Machida. Keep the score close, land the takedown, steal the round. It worked to a T and I was not shocked at all by the decision, I felt Davis won the fight based on the scoring system in place.
    Thats how I felt too.you don't get points for defending a takedown in wrestling or jujitsu, why should you in MMA?
    Last edited by CtGreat; 08-05-2013 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #35
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    Sorry RH but I am not going quote you for a reply lol. Just too much work to short it. IMO Round 2 was clearly Davis' who outstruck and out grappled Machida and round three was clearly Machida's.

    So are you saying the two significant strikes that Machida outlanded Davis by in the first round should be worth more then the takedown? Those two strikes should give Machida round one over the takedown by Davis, the guard pass and GnP? If Machida was tearing Davis up on his feet in the first round, then yea even with the takedown I would have given the round to Machida. But the fact of the matter is he barely outlanded Davis. So with the striking nearly equal, the takedown is the deciding factor.

    By now I would think people who has been watching MMA for a while know that the judges score takedowns and takedown attempts higher then everything else besides nearly finishing a fight. Whether you agree with it or not there is enough history to show that judges will give the round to the guy who scores the takedown 90% of the time. Do I agree with it, not always but in this instance I do when the striking was so close. Every fighter knows this and nearly every fan knows this.
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    Stopping a takedown is nothing besides staying neutral. If one guy shot fifty times a round and got every single one stuffed, but nothing else happened, I would give the guy that was attempting the takedown a 30-27 victory for aggression. Wrestling gets shit on by almost everybody, and it always will until the rules get changed into a joke. Everybody already complains about the wrestlers not being active enough from the top, but nobody blames the guy on the bottom that also isn't striking and couldn't stop a takedown. Everybody says change the rules, but nobody says cut the guys who are completely missing the skills of maybe the most important martial art. MMA is supposed to be a real fight minus dirty stuff and long term harmful stuff, and in a real fight there is no stand up for the fight not being exciting enough. People watching might say that it was boring, but they would know who won.
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    http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/8/4/...-lyoto-machida
    UFC 163 in Tweets: Pros react to Korean Zombie's injury, score Phil Davis vs. Lyoto Machida


    Demetrious Johnson ✔ @MightyMouseUFC

    Shocked but I give it to @PhilMrWonderful he did push the fight and go after it and try to make something happen.
    Ben Askren @Benaskren

    Dang I don't know if Phil won but he is way improved from the Evans fight. Few more fight and he will be ready to challenge!
    Kenny Florian ✔ @kennyflorian

    Phil Davis! Close fight but thought he pulled it off. Smart strategy. Thought Phil won rounds 1 & 2. Shaking up 205 rankings! #ufc163
    TJ Grant ✔ @TJ_Grant

    Wow. First 2 rounds were real close. But of course I disagree. No damage done with tds
    Tim Kennedy ✔ @TimKennedyMMA

    I thought @lyotomachidafw won that fight. He landed more significant strikes. #UFC163
    Krzysztof Soszynski ✔ @KSOSufc

    Wow! How do 2 takedowns at the end of the round win you a fight?!?! Damn!
    Daniel Cormier ✔ @dc_mma

    Guys was a close fight. No one landed many strikes. Turn the volume down and watch the fight and it won't be as obvious.
    Mike Brown ✔ @mikebrownmma

    Close one.. I had it 29-28 davis but i think the scorecard s will be all over the place
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    Everyone is talking about this fight but no one seems to be really looking at the end result. If Phil Davis manages to get a title shot he has no chance of beating Jon Jones. Phil's striking has improved but this is still the same guy I think would lose to Rashad in a rematch. If he can't beat Rashad I highly doubt he could handle Jones due to his striking ability or lackthereof.
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    I think Davis has a better chance against Bones that Goose does.
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