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Thread: Jones vs Gustafsson fightmetric

  1. #11
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    Enjoying a huge reach advantage is not the only reason Jones has not often been tested by the world's best at 205.

    I do see what you are saying in that his skill levels are not virtuosic yet. It is fair to say that he will only get better with time and he is not near the level he can one day reach. A man's level of talent in any field is infinite, it is up the person to master anything that they spend their time with.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonesKnows View Post
    I find it odd that people are saying he shouldn't be atop the pound for pound list....my question to you is why? Because Vegas had odds that turned out to be completely and utterly wrong? because he didn't finish him? because we the fans believed Jones would walk through him? Or because we the fans and many, many others under estimated a very talented fighter in Alexander Gustafsson?

    Jones has lost what, 3 rounds in the UFC? Defended the 205 belt more times than anyone else in UFC history, and did so by the young age of 26. Yeah hes the P4P king at the moment
    Because p4p is relative to their skill sets vs their size. Jones is freaking enormous at lhw, all the people he beats are much smaller than him, that already significantly weakens his case. Anderson is big for his division too, but at least he went up in weight every once and a while and humiliated some lower level lhws (not saying it was a great indicator of #1 status). Jones has done the opposite and fought middle weights. If you take someone like brock, who was humungous, but still beat top hw's, you wouldn't rank him in the top p4p because he won fights with his size. Jones' size advantage is very similar, though he is more skilled than brock in most aspects. This recent fight kind of showed me that jones wouldn't beat most of the top heavy weights and if he fights people who are his own size he wouldn't be as dominant. A great case for the #1 p4p is aldo, his skill set is just unreal and he has beat a lot of top contenders from the weight class above his, even the former lw champion in edgar.



  3. #13
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    Sorry Rivethead, I respectfully disagree, because Jone's has faced way tougher competition than Aldo, and while many of the things you say are true. He still finishes fights or dominates them. His reach and height advantage can't be helped. Hell should Struve be HW champ right now if that's really all it took? How'd that height and reach thing work out for Junior against Cain last time? Jone's has a tremendous fighting mind and is a great student, that's what makes him dangerous. And when faced with adversity he finds a way to win and had he finished GUS, your argument would be even less valid. He was bound to find someone to give him trouble, after all he's a fighter in what WAS one of the toughest divisions in MMA. He seems to have tamed it. How many top contenders had Jones NOT already beat in his division? What this guy does in the cage is nothing short of amazing, and most fighters would have found a way to quit after round 3. Every P4P fighter in MMA has flaws, but being able to adapt and overcome challenges, isn't that the measure of a real champion?
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  4. #14
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    Aldo has faced better opponents than Jones. By far.

    Even if you take away the MW's--and that's two title "defenses" right there [again, it should be stressed that sonnen got a title fight without ever winning at 205] you're left with three great bouts: when he took Shogun's title, when he came back to beat Machida, and against Gus. Whether Shogun was already diminished as a fighter when he faced Jones--I don't think he was--rampage and Evans certainly were. It's not like they were fighting great and he took their soul. They were fighting mediocre and got title shots based on their status as former champions.

    Aldo beating Florian and Frankie is similar to Struve and Cain dropping down from HW to face Jones, and Jones tooling both of them.

    There is no way at all that Jones has beaten better competition than Aldo.

    As far as the "is Struve HW champ" nonsense, I'm not saying all it takes is a length advantage. I'm not saying Jones isn't talented. I'm just saying that he's using length to cover holes in his game, and while the holes in his game don't prevent him from being the best at 205, they are big enough to preclude him from being #1 p4p.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeodd2 View Post
    because Jone's has faced way tougher competition than Aldo
    I stopped reading after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWIFTboy View Post
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonesKnows View Post
    I find it odd that people are saying he shouldn't be atop the pound for pound list....my question to you is why? Because Vegas had odds that turned out to be completely and utterly wrong? because he didn't finish him? because we the fans believed Jones would walk through him? Or because we the fans and many, many others under estimated a very talented fighter in Alexander Gustafsson?

    Jones has lost what, 3 rounds in the UFC? Defended the 205 belt more times than anyone else in UFC history, and did so by the young age of 26. Yeah hes the P4P king at the moment
    The reason he shouldn't be ranked as the number 1 P4P fighter is because outside of Goose he recently hasn't fought anyone worth mentioning. Beating up unranked LHWs who are truly MWs does not make you the P4P best fighter. Meanwhile you have Mighty Mouse looking like the most talented fighter in the world, GSP who has only lost 3 rounds since 2007 (before Jones even started fighting). Honestly if GSP or Johnson aren't your top two P4P fighters right now I am not sure you understand MMA.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masscore View Post
    The reason he shouldn't be ranked as the number 1 P4P fighter is because outside of Goose he recently hasn't fought anyone worth mentioning. Beating up unranked LHWs who are truly MWs does not make you the P4P best fighter. Meanwhile you have Mighty Mouse looking like the most talented fighter in the world, GSP who has only lost 3 rounds since 2007 (before Jones even started fighting). Honestly if GSP or Johnson aren't your top two P4P fighters right now I am not sure you understand MMA.
    I'd put Aldo higher than both of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWIFTboy View Post
    I rode a horse. Banged in a hot spring.
    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Is he bigger then WarMachine?


  8. #18

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    A little off topic, but Struve does a horrible job at using his length. He really needs to work on that and stop relying on taking a shot to give a shot.



  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevoOnTheRadio View Post
    I'd put Aldo higher than both of them.
    Yea, not going to lie, kind of forgot about Aldo for a second. I could see an argument for him being over Johnson, but no way over GSP. GSP has lost only 2-3 rounds since 2007, depending on which judges score card. In that time span that includes wins over Hughes, Fitch, Penn, Alves, Shields, Diaz and Condit. That's a list of some of the best MMA fighters EVER. Not just at WW but ever. GSP may not be flashy, may not have all the highlights but all he does is go out there, fight he best his weightclass has to offer and dominates them for the better part of the last 6 years.
    Dude, Iím a wrestler. Iím the best wrestler in MMA. Wrestling IS, was and always has been the most dominate form of mix martial art on the planet. Thatís all there is to it. We all know it, some people want to fight it, some people want doubt it but wresters rule the MMA world. -
    Ben Askren

  10. #20
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    Well is it a list of the all time P4P king or a list of the current best P4P fighters in the world? Right now, at this moment in time, I feel ALdo is above GSP P4P.

    I think the deciding factor for me is the fact Aldo has beaten a couple of guys who came down from a higher weight class. One a former champion, the other a perennial title contender.
    Last edited by KevoOnTheRadio; 09-23-2013 at 09:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWIFTboy View Post
    I rode a horse. Banged in a hot spring.
    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Is he bigger then WarMachine?


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