I miss Fedor
i keep reading about Bones length being the reason for his great success - but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?
Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)
Last edited by BonesKnows; 09-26-2013 at 07:30 AM.
I've said he covers significant holes in his skillset with length, which is a very, very different thing than saying it's the only reason he's successful.
First of all, your mistaking a lack of overhype as criticism. I don't know that I've seen anyone say anything other than Jones being an immensely talented, very young fighter. That's not criticism, that's a compliment. Saying that he's not as talented as he's made out to be isn't a criticism of him, it's a criticism of the hype machine using him to pimp fights, or of fanboys who don't know what they're talking about.but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?
But Goose isn't ranked p4p. He's certainly not misrepresented as the #1 p4p fighter on the planet. If he were, there would be people trying to correct that misrepresentation, just as they are doing with Jones.
I don't remember anyone saying Jones isn't the best LHW. I don't know that I've seen anyone "criticize" him for his length. I've made statements intended to clarify the difference between p4p--as an attempt to measure pure skills if all fighters were the same size--and physical gifts. It's not a new concern. When Georges beat up Penn in the rematch, idiots made a big deal out of it being a great accolade in terms of his p4p greatness. It wasn't. When you have two fighters who are very skilled, the bigger guy is supposed to beat the smaller guy. That's how size advantages work. Again, that's not a criticism of Georges, it's a clarification of the difference between p4p and employing size as an advantage.
Nobody is criticizing their dominance as LHW's. But Goose isn't mentioned in any serious p4p-elite discussions, and Jones--erroneously--is.Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)
is that concept really so difficult to grasp?
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I see Chuck's run from 2000 to 2006 being more impressive but after a) considering that there was a different level of competition in the eras, b) Jones is still building his legacy.
I easily understand why folks see Jones as the future GOAT, he's amazing and seems invincible even in rounds that he's losing. But I think we're still a few wins from clinches that.
Having to defend his title against Belfort and Sonnen didn't help. But at least Vitor has "Former Light Heavy Weight Champion" before his name. Beating Hendo would have been a nice name on the resume.
If he beats Tex and Goose in a rematch and then, I don't know, maybe Lil Nog or Phil Davis or even Machida again, I think there won't be much of an argument.
And also on a side note riv, (and this is an honest question) wouldn't using his size and length be a skill in its own? We see guys with huge reaches and length not succeed like Bones or Goose ex. Struve, Big foot, Kongo, Mitrione - all above an 80 inch reach but dont have the same success.
Big Foot - HW - 82
Kongo - HW - 82
Mitrione - HW - 82
You named four guys who have similar or less reach than Jones but are in a division higher. In a division where you can just rattle off four guys with 80 plus reach makes it less of an advantage.
Goose is 76.5 (wiki) and 81.2 (according to Goose)
Jones - 84.5
Yes, utilizing size and reach is a skill in its own. A skill and an advantage.
Spatial recognition is indeed a key tool in striking, yet it is not such an insurmountable skill that it will overcome any other, especially against fighters with different tools that can counter at the correct time. Jones has highly commendable skills but not enough to cross the weight gap or overcome those of a JDS or Cain. Jones would fare well against all of the fighters you have listened baring perhaps Bigfoot.
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