View Poll Results: Who is the LHW GOAT

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44. This poll is closed
  • Chuck Liddell

    6 13.64%
  • Bones Jones

    24 54.55%
  • Randy Couture

    0 0%
  • Wanderlie Silva

    11 25.00%
  • other

    3 6.82%
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Thread: Is Johnny Bones the LHW GOAT?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post
    Fedor would've wrecked Jones.
    Well....yea. I don't think anybody is arguing that point. I don't think the craziest, most nut hugging Jones fan would argue that point. Hell, I don't think BonesKnows would argue that point.
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  2. #62
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    I miss Fedor

  3. #63
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    i keep reading about Bones length being the reason for his great success - but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?

    Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by KevoOnTheRadio View Post
    Well....yea. I don't think anybody is arguing that point. I don't think the craziest, most nut hugging Jones fan would argue that point. Hell, I don't think BonesKnows would argue that point.
    Well he would have a 10.5 inch reach on Fedor, and like everyone has been saying hes overally successful because of a massive reach and size advantage so id give Jones a very solid chance in that fight
    Last edited by BonesKnows; 09-26-2013 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre View Post
    I miss Fedor
    Quote Originally Posted by Sick_Lunatic View Post
    I've always liked strudel.



  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonesKnows View Post
    i keep reading about Bones length being the reason for his great success
    I don't remember anyone stating that the only reason for bones' success is length.

    I've said he covers significant holes in his skillset with length, which is a very, very different thing than saying it's the only reason he's successful.

    but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?
    First of all, your mistaking a lack of overhype as criticism. I don't know that I've seen anyone say anything other than Jones being an immensely talented, very young fighter. That's not criticism, that's a compliment. Saying that he's not as talented as he's made out to be isn't a criticism of him, it's a criticism of the hype machine using him to pimp fights, or of fanboys who don't know what they're talking about.

    But Goose isn't ranked p4p. He's certainly not misrepresented as the #1 p4p fighter on the planet. If he were, there would be people trying to correct that misrepresentation, just as they are doing with Jones.

    I don't remember anyone saying Jones isn't the best LHW. I don't know that I've seen anyone "criticize" him for his length. I've made statements intended to clarify the difference between p4p--as an attempt to measure pure skills if all fighters were the same size--and physical gifts. It's not a new concern. When Georges beat up Penn in the rematch, idiots made a big deal out of it being a great accolade in terms of his p4p greatness. It wasn't. When you have two fighters who are very skilled, the bigger guy is supposed to beat the smaller guy. That's how size advantages work. Again, that's not a criticism of Georges, it's a clarification of the difference between p4p and employing size as an advantage.

    Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)
    Nobody is criticizing their dominance as LHW's. But Goose isn't mentioned in any serious p4p-elite discussions, and Jones--erroneously--is.

    is that concept really so difficult to grasp?

    rh
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    I see Chuck's run from 2000 to 2006 being more impressive but after a) considering that there was a different level of competition in the eras, b) Jones is still building his legacy.

    I easily understand why folks see Jones as the future GOAT, he's amazing and seems invincible even in rounds that he's losing. But I think we're still a few wins from clinches that.
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  7. #67
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    Having to defend his title against Belfort and Sonnen didn't help. But at least Vitor has "Former Light Heavy Weight Champion" before his name. Beating Hendo would have been a nice name on the resume.

    If he beats Tex and Goose in a rematch and then, I don't know, maybe Lil Nog or Phil Davis or even Machida again, I think there won't be much of an argument.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I don't remember anyone stating that the only reason for bones' success is length.

    I've said he covers significant holes in his skillset with length, which is a very, very different thing than saying it's the only reason he's successful.

    rh
    I wasnt suggesting that people were saying Jones was only successful because of his length, but in a few of the threads based around Jones and/or the Jones/Goose fight there have been countless people on the boards here saying that Jones's success is credited to his reach and size advantage over his opponents. Here are just a few of the posts i was referring to in general;

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    What we got to see is a guy who is larger than 90% of the fighters he fights struggle because he wasnt simply bigger.

    There is blood in the water, the sharks are coming
    Quote Originally Posted by CtGreat View Post
    I dont understand why some people harp on "size". Nah, fuck the fact that Gus is an insanely talented fighter; the main reason Jones struggled is because his size advantage wasn't there and Jones is overhyped...
    Quote Originally Posted by VimyRidge View Post
    I wonder what Jones' record would be if he had a 77inch reach like everyone else in the LHW division? Probably never very good. He still had a reach advantage over Gus, I wonder how the fight would have gone if the reach advantage was switched.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1inthechamber View Post
    I thought it would be a repeat of Davis vs Gus. I was shocked at his performance.

    I've said this about his reach forever. Like I said before, Jones won't make top 5 at HW or maybe even top 10. He has a lot of improving to do, the look on his face was priceless when he kept just "spamming" (ufc 3 lol) those oblique kicks and Gus was still punching him in his face lol.

    I think its safe to say we won't see that "Not Quite Human" shirt again.
    Where i see it more like this;

    Quote Originally Posted by CtGreat View Post
    To me this fight was a representation of what happens when 2 colossol forces collide. Goose isnt just sucessful because he is big, hes fuckin talented, so is Jones.
    I just see the "hes bigger and has a longer reach so thats why he has dominated opponents" taking away from what Jones has done when the same argument could also be used against Goose. Im not talking P4P or greatness in the LHW division, im simply talking one fighter to the other, how is the length and size argument any different for Goose as it is for Jones?

    And also on a side note riv, (and this is an honest question) wouldn't using his size and length be a skill in its own? We see guys with huge reaches and length not succeed like Bones or Goose ex. Struve, Big foot, Kongo, Mitrione - all above an 80 inch reach but dont have the same success.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonesKnows View Post

    And also on a side note riv, (and this is an honest question) wouldn't using his size and length be a skill in its own? We see guys with huge reaches and length not succeed like Bones or Goose ex. Struve, Big foot, Kongo, Mitrione - all above an 80 inch reach but dont have the same success.
    Struve - HW - 84.5
    Big Foot - HW - 82
    Kongo - HW - 82
    Mitrione - HW - 82

    You named four guys who have similar or less reach than Jones but are in a division higher. In a division where you can just rattle off four guys with 80 plus reach makes it less of an advantage.

    Goose is 76.5 (wiki) and 81.2 (according to Goose)

    Jones - 84.5

    Yes, utilizing size and reach is a skill in its own. A skill and an advantage.

  10. #70
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    Spatial recognition is indeed a key tool in striking, yet it is not such an insurmountable skill that it will overcome any other, especially against fighters with different tools that can counter at the correct time. Jones has highly commendable skills but not enough to cross the weight gap or overcome those of a JDS or Cain. Jones would fare well against all of the fighters you have listened baring perhaps Bigfoot.

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