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Thread: Ratner defends 10-point must in MMA

  1. #1
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    Default Ratner defends 10-point must in MMA

    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...t-must-in-MMA/

    However, one of the great combat sports regulators in history, Marc Ratner, thinks the system largely works. Ratner is Marc Ratner is the current Vice President of Regulatory Affairs for the UFC and was formerly the Executive Director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

    Ratner places the blame for poor decisions on judges with an incomplete sense of how to interpret offense, defense and what a winning round looks like . He argues that when the judging is sound, the 10-point must system works. He adds that there is no clear alternative that would work better.

    "I think it does work," Ratner said on Monday's 'The MMA Hour' with Ariel Helwani. "The problem with that system, whether it be boxing or MMA, is that not all 10-9 rounds are equal. Certainly in a three-round fight, that can skew who wins, but for the most part, most of the decisions are good."

    "Every once in a while, you're going to get one that certainly goes against public opinion. But MMA is harder to judge than boxing, in my opinion, because you have to know what's going on on the ground."

    "It's an evolving discipline and I think we just have to keep on educating and that's part of my goals. No, I don't think it would be that easy to change. I'm not for the half-point system. I can understand it, but I think if the judges really concentrate and do their job, the ten-point must system can work."

    Ratner also had some advice for referee 'Big' John McCarthy who made some pointed remarks last month about current Executive Director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission Keith Kizer. McCarthy has questioned the competence of officials in Nevada before, and has not been asked to officiate in the state.

    "The truth is, Keith Kizer is a person that does not know combative sports," said McCarthy. "He's never been part of them. He's never done them. He puts people [in positions] at times that maybe shouldn't be put. You tell me why C.J. Ross said the Floyd Mayweather fight was a draw. Did you watch it? My god, I had it 11-1. It wasn't even close. So if you're doing that, you keep putting those same people back, you don't care about the fighters. You don't care about them as athletes, you don't care about their livelihood. And you know what? You shouldn't be in that job. And if someone doesn't like what I said, too bad."

    "I don't work for Kieth Kizer. I would work for an athletic commission; love to work for them. I would never work for Keith Kizer. Never. If he's in charge, if he's the executive director, I want nothing to do with it."

    Ratner does not believe that the outburst will server McCarthy well.

    "I do believe he's one of the top referees in the world and I think you are seeing him more and more," said Ratner. "If I were him, I'd never knock another state commission because the states do band together and they hear that an official is saying something bad about one of their brothers. And I've discussed that with him. I don't think that's the right way to handle it... I think that if he wants to have a complaint, he should do it more internally than externally and not put it out there for the world."

  2. #2
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    Geez - just throwing out that he believes the 10-point system does work with no indication as to reviewing the Nick Diaz MMA scoring system. That sounds rather closed minded to me. LOL
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    My issue is there are not a enough 10-8 rounds given out. In boxing you get a 10-8 for knocking the other guy down just one time. Meanwhile in MMA you have to come close to killing the other fighter to get a 10-8 round (Maynard-Edgar, Cain-Rothwell). If they handed out more 10-8 rounds I thinkt he scoring would start to even out.
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  4. #4

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    "I think it does work
    No. It can work in fights that are simple to score, but it's not working consistently, and it fails in complex fights.
    There is a big difference.

    The problem with that system, whether it be boxing or MMA, is that not all 10-9 rounds are equal.
    That's exactly the problem...and simply having the judges "concentrate" isn't going to fix it.
    One way would be to move to a different point system.
    Another--if you felt you wanted to keep the 10PM system--would be to move to an evaluation system for judges and mandatory training at allocated intervals.

    Certainly in a three-round fight, that can skew who wins, but for the most part, most of the decisions are good."
    Most isn't good enough. There are careers and livelihoods at stake, and there is no progress in fixing the problem.

    In a business that has billions at stake, if you had a workplace problem--say a elite-level guy who shows up for work and performs on "most" days, he's going to get a warning and told to sort himself out. If he doesn't, he's going to get fired.
    At least, in a company that wants to get better and stay sharp.

    Every once in a while, you're going to get one that certainly goes against public opinion. But MMA is harder to judge than boxing, in my opinion, because you have to know what's going on on the ground.
    Then the solution is to put people in there who know what's going on with grappling [all grappling, mind you, not just ground fighting]. To determine that, evaluate your current pool of officials and educate the ones who aren't equipped.

    It's an evolving discipline and I think we just have to keep on educating and that's part of my goals.
    I'd like to hear more about the education that's already gone on if he's going to "keep" doing it.
    I'd really like to hear about the evaluation process to see if the education is working.

    [QUOTE[]I'm not for the half-point system. I can understand it, but I think if the judges really concentrate and do their job, the ten-point must system can work."
    I'm not for half-points either. It just creates an even more complicated solution for people who can't grasp the concepts in the first place.
    But concentration isn't going to get it done.
    I'd love to see the commission "do their job" and fire incompetent employees, or at least force them to come to a standard of competence.


    and don't even get me started on this nonsense:
    "I do believe he's one of the top referees in the world and I think you are seeing him more and more," said Ratner. "If I were him, I'd never knock another state commission because the states do band together and they hear that an official is saying something bad about one of their brothers. And I've discussed that with him. I don't think that's the right way to handle it... I think that if he wants to have a complaint, he should do it more internally than externally and not put it out there for the world."
    So he admits that there is collusion and an tendency to cover up failure and shortcomings among the old-boy network--but then he thinks that an internal, private complaint by BJM is going to go anywhere?

    Kizer is a village idiot. And there are clueless masses out there who assume he's competent because of his title. Keeping things private isn't going to change anything. If the emperor doesn't have clothes, he's not going to start calling out his staff for being naked, is he? Because the commission is riddled with incompetents who cover for the incompetence of others. It takes someone who has credibility--as BJM does--who cares enough about the sport--as BJM does--to stand on the outside and take the risk by pointing out nonsense--as BJM has.

    If Ratner had half a spine, he'd have made it a point to talk to Kizer a LOT more than he did to McCarthy.
    Somehow I do not see that happening. I believe as long as the sport is making money, they don't think it needs improvements.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masscore View Post
    My issue is there are not a enough 10-8 rounds given out. In boxing you get a 10-8 for knocking the other guy down just one time. Meanwhile in MMA you have to come close to killing the other fighter to get a 10-8 round (Maynard-Edgar, Cain-Rothwell). If they handed out more 10-8 rounds I thinkt he scoring would start to even out.
    I think there should be 10-10 rounds. There are more rounds we see that are even, and almost impossible to give to one guy over the other. In a 3 round fight, should it be (10-10, 10-9, 9-10) and we have a draw, how about going to a 4th deciding round? Should that end up being a 10-10 as well, then lets call the fight a draw, that way neither fighter is hurt by the decision in terms of ranking. They can always fight another day.

    Fights like Hendo/Machida, Hendo/Rashad, Jones/Goose, Bendo/Gil, Bendo/Edgar 1, Edgar/Aldo, could have all been draws, and quite a few those would have been good for the losing fighter's record.

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    I agree, but if we started seeing more 10-8 rounds I could see us gettting a lot more draws in 3 round fights.

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