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Thread: White: No reason Vitor Belfort shouldn't be able to use TRT in Nevada or anywhere els

  1. #1
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    Default White: No reason Vitor Belfort shouldn't be able to use TRT in Nevada or anywhere els

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/11/1...ble-to-use-trt
    At the post-fight press conference following the event, UFC president Dana White confirmed Belfort is next in line for a shot at the Middleweight title 'barring something crazy', of course. At the media scrum later that night, White was asked about a hypothetical issue of Belfort possibly being unable to fight in the US, namely under the NSAC in Nevada:

    That's not true, that's completely not true. There's no reason Vitor Belfort can't fight in Las Vegas or anywhere else in the United States. Vitor Belfort has not been abusing TRT. In a million fucking years, I'd never let that happen.

    Belfort revealed a couple weeks ago that he's been using TRT for three years now. He's been granted exemptions by the Brazilian commissions for his three fights this year as well. His use of the treatment is seen as more controversial than other TRT users because of a failed drug test fro 4-hydroxytestosterone in 2006. That failed test caused NSAC director Keith Kizer to say his commission probably wouldn't grant Belfort an exemption if he fights again in Nevada.

    White obviously disagrees with Kizer, but there's no telling if that will be an issue yet. First, Anderson Silva and Chris Weidman have to rematch for the title at UFC 168. After that, the UFC will have to decide when and where they want the winner to face Belfort.

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    “Unless Something Crazy Happens,” Vitor Belfort Gets Winner of Chris Weidman vs. Anderson Silva
    http://www.mmaweekly.com/unless-some...anderson-silva

    “Big things for Vitor Belfort. Big things,” said White. “He did something no one in 39 fights was able to do; he stopped Dan Henderson.

    “Vitor is a completely different fighter than when he was younger. He’s mentally there. He’s physically there. He’s more well-rounded than he’s ever been. I’m blown away by tonight’s performance.”

    He continued, “Anderson’s gonna fight Dec. 28 in Las Vegas and it’s going to be the biggest fight we’ve ever done. The gate is already at $5.6 million and the pay-per-view is going to be huge. It’s going to be a massive event.

    “And, yes, whoever wins will face Vitor Belfort. Unless something crazy happens and somebody gets hurt.”
    “Vitor gets crazy sometimes. He gets his head a little over the skis,” he said about his prior run-ins with Belfort. “So we end up butting heads a little bit here and there. But I like Vitor. I respect Vitor. It’s tough to not respect the fighter he’s become. I think he’s a thousand times the fighter he used to be. Not only physically, but mentally.

    “Mentally, Vitor used to have some issues where, you know, he wasn’t as confident in his abilities. He used to fight very one-dimensional. He would always try to use his hands and get the big knockout. And now you see this guy is kicking, punching… did you see the way he came into the Octagon tonight? He ran into the Octagon. The new Vitor Belfort is (expletive) awesome. I love it.”

  3. #3
    dimerules28 Guest

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    Someone should post the article on mmajunkie that has ben fowlkes and danny downes discussing trt. I think Fowlkes has horrible skills as a journalist but bring the straight facts when it comes to talking about the new steroided to the max Belfort. Once again, yes trt is 100% steroids.
    Last edited by dimerules28; 11-10-2013 at 07:43 PM.

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    In Vitors latest stint in the UFC, he has fought once in Vegas, a KO loss to Anderson Silva. Vitor says he's been on it for 3 years which would put him starting it either right before that fight or right after.

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    So let me get this straight. A synthetic substance that puts a chemical in your body at NORMAL levels should be considered a steriod. I guess Diabetic fighters should just retire too right? Any female fighters taking Hormones, sorry. Hey do you have a thyroid issue? Too bad can't fight. I mean come on? Did anybody even bother to find out if his levels were in range for someone his age? If he had the levels of a 20 y/o I would agree, but if he has the same levels as the average man his age while on the treatment then tell me what's the big deal again? He says he's being tested every week. And he'd probably agree to getting tested twice a week, but it doesn't seem to matter. Those who have it in their head that it's "Roids" will never believe otherwise, it's almost like a religion now....
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    Actually, I believe Insulin is still on the banned list too. I know some Olympic athletes have abused it in the past, and I can name one high-level sprinter from the U.S. in particular. Anyways.

    With all due respect joedd2 some would call you just as deluded, he's injecting testosterone, that's a steroid. Just because MMA allows exemptions it doesn't change that fact. This guy would never be allowed to compete in the Olympics or any other world championship. It's a joke. I think MMA is out to lunch on this issue, but that's just my opinion.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Dana White ‘absolutely 100 percent against TRT,' says usage is ‘cheating'

    "TRT has become a way for people to cheat. If this is what your normal level should be and then you have guys training at huge levels (of testosterone) for their whole camp then tapering down to get to normal levels before the fucking fight, that's cheating, and I don't like it anymore."

    "There are plenty of guys in the UFC that are naturally gifted and talented fighters. If you're testosterone levels are too low then you're probably too old to be fighting, stop fighting! "

    "You have guys that go in there 100% natural with his talent and natural ability, against someone on TRT, basically someone that's on steroids. I'm absolutely 100 percent against TRT and now I'm going to start fighting it 100 percent with the athletic commissions and I want nothing to do with it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by earle View Post
    With all due respect Actually, I believe Insulin is still on the banned list too.
    I'm pretty sure that there has to be some diabetic fighters out there, and obviously commissions would make exemptions to the use of insulin when it is prescribed to a fighter, just as they do with TRT.

    Quote Originally Posted by earle View Post
    With all due respect joedd2 some would call you just as deluded, he's injecting testosterone, that's a steroid. Just because MMA allows exemptions it doesn't change that fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by dimerules28 View Post
    Once again, yes trt is 100% steroids.
    Yes, using TRT when a fighter's testerone levels are normal is like steroids, because the fighter are raising his levels ABOVE normal, giving said fighter an unfair advantage when compared to a fighter with regular testosterone levels, so that is cheating.

    When a fighter uses TRT when it is prescribed to him as a medication to raise his testosterone levels to the NORMAL level, is putting him "on par" with other normal (non-cheating) fighters. Do so doesn't give him an unfair advantage, it treats his medical condition and eliminates what would be a unfair handicap, that is not cheating IMO.

    I'll admit though, I don't fully understand TRT, but from what I can research about it, you guys don't either.



    P.S. Here is a link to a page that tries to explain what Hormone Replacement Therapy is and how it differs from steroids. (Yes, TRT and HRT are the same thing, TRT is just a specific type of HRT)
    Last edited by XxChAoS32xX; 11-10-2013 at 09:34 PM.
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    http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/1...-and-trt-usage
    Trading Shots: Downes and Fowlkes on Vitor Belfort's win and TRT usage
    Fowlkes: OK, Danny. Anyone who reads this site or stands within earshot of me while Vitor Belfort is fighting already knows what I think of his remarkable resurgence. I'd like to start this week by opening it up to you. What went through your mind as you watched Belfort knock Hendo into old age?

    Downes: Brace yourself, the TRT tweets are coming.

    Isn't that the most unfortunate part? Henderson gets knocked out for the first time in his career, Belfort sets himself up for a title shot (maybe), and there's no real air of legitimacy. Fans are probably tired of hearing about it as much as you're tired of writing about it, but it's relevant. In my opinion, the discussion today is much like the steroids discussion in baseball. Do steroids teach you how to read a curveball and hit home runs? No. Does TRT give you the timing to read an opponent and counter? Nope. But those are intellectually dishonest arguments. Did PEDs teach Marion Jones how to run? No, but they sure as hell helped her win some gold medals. Maybe we should all take the Malcolm Gladwell approach to sports, but I doubt fans want to go that far.

    Fowlkes: Well, crap. I was sort of hoping you'd tell me that you wanted to discuss Belfort's hair or Henderson's country ballad walkout music or the wisdom of Hendo's decision to charge straight in with his head down. Anything but TRT, because, like you, I'm sick of it. At the same time, I'd feel like a phony if I ignored it. This is the story. Belfort could very well be the best middleweight in the world right now, and the powers that be in this sport have given him permission to use steroids (yes, synthetic testosterone administered exogenously is a steroid, according to the WADA list of prohibited substances, so let's call it what it is).

    That's insane to me. It would be insane in baseball, where the worst thing that happens from rampant steroid use is we have to readjust our understanding of the record books. In a combat sport like MMA – which, newsflash, can be hazardous to your brain under normal, drug-free circumstances – it seems so much worse. It seems unethical, and more than a little gross.

    But I'm interested in your point about legitimacy. Say Belfort does fight for the title in Las Vegas, and say the Nevada commission decides it's totally cool if the "Young Dinosaur" uses synthetic testosterone. Does that answer the legitimacy question for you? Would it make you look at Belfort the same way you look at Hendo or Chael Sonnen or Frank Mir or Forrest Griffin or ohmygod I can't believe how many low-T sufferers there are in this sport …?

    Downes: Now that you mention it, I think we should spend a column talking about all the different layers in Toby Keith songs, but alas, the scourge of TRT strikes again. No matter what the NSAC decides, it doesn't change things in my mind. If the NSAC allows him to use it, it doesn't make me think it's any more legitimate. If it prohibits him from using TRT and he follows orders, he still earned a title shot (and the accompanying payday) by using a performance-enhancing drug. History is written by the victor (or the winner, as Velasquez/JDS III taught us), though, so at the end of the day I'm not really sure what it means. The people demand spinning stuff and sweet mohawks, and it looks like they'll get their fill of both.

    To those who play the "Vitor is the victim" card, saying that he gets an unfair amount of criticism compared to other TRT users – get real. Why do you think Alex Rodriquez gets more publicity about steroid use than Bartolo Colon? Relevance.

    Fowlkes: The either-or situation you just outlined for Belfort's prospects in Nevada makes me wonder, which would be worse? If he can't get an exemption in Nevada, it might be the final blow to his credibility, at least as far as public opinion goes. It'll be on the books: Belfort doesn't need testosterone. That would essentially invalidate all his wins in Brazil, wouldn't it? And imagine if he fights in the U.S. without a testosterone exemption. If he loses, we'll take it as a sign that it was the TRT that really won all those fights for him. If he wins the title without it, dude, why was he on it in the first place? Clearly he doesn't need it. We'll say he was gaming the system this whole time, and the UFC helped him do it.

    Now imagine that the NSAC does give him an exemption, even after executive director Keith Kizer said it wouldn't, and even after Belfort basically admitted in a recent interview that he used testosterone without permission for his last fight in Vegas. Then the NSAC loses all credibility. The story then will be, "NSAC grants Belfort a testosterone exemption because Dana White told it to." Then what are we supposed to think the next time White goes off about the UFC being regulated by "the government"?

    Of course, there's another option. The UFC could keep Belfort out of Nevada, and out of any place that would look too closely at his hormone levels. He could stay in Brazil (you know, because of Globo and TV ratings). He could go back to Toronto, or somewhere in Europe, or just head to one of the more hapless states in the U.S. The UFC could avoid this final referendum on his testosterone use. Then what would you think?

    Downes: That's a lot hypotheticals. Maybe we could write a “Choose Your Own Adventure” novel starring Bitor Velfort (damn licensing issues) and the evil government crony Ken Klizer. No matter what scenario plays out, there are problems, but the most troublesome would be if the NSAC turns a blind eye and gives in to Vitor. That would open the floodgates for every conspiracy theory (the UFC concussed T.J. Grant on purpose!) and ultimately hurt the sport as a whole.

    I think you're on to something with the kick-the-can approach. Right now, the best course of action would be to avoid settling the matter. Fight in Brazil, talk about the Super Bowl-level ratings you'll garner, and call it a day. Sure, whiny journalist types will waste more time talking about TRT and "fairness," but you can solve that with some good ol'-fashioned ad hominem attacks. That might not give us the closure we desire, but what would? What's the end game? Should we just wait until Belfort retires and the newest en vogue drug comes on the market?

    Fowlkes: Although I can't prove it, I suspect that might be the UFC's preferred approach to the TRT problem. I mean the part about waiting for current users to retire. Not the part about the new drug, which I assume will be called "nuke," and the fighters who seek exemptions for it will do so with solemn assurances that they're only trying to bring their nuke levels up to normal.

    As for Belfort, I'm not sure there's any clear path to a nice, tidy ending, which kind of makes me feel bad for the guy. This should be the high-point of his career. He's knocking people out left and right, blazing a comeback trail in his mid-30s that finally justifies the hype of his early 20s. It would be an amazing story if it didn't also lend itself so perfectly to the familiar arc of the enhanced pro athlete. Every time he's praised for his "awesome" rebirth as a brand new fighter, it's like, yeah, almost seems too good to be true, doesn't it?

    I mean, I guess we can't pity him too much, since he made his own choices. But he is such a talented fighter. The man is truly gifted. I just find myself wondering if he could have done this without TRT. I can't help but wonder if he ever asks himself the same thing, because if he could have, then wouldn't that have been preferable? And if he couldn't have, what does that tell us?

    Downes: I know you look up to me as a role model, Ben, but that's a lot of questions, and I'm afraid I don't have answers. What I can say with certainty is that Belfort is not a tragic figure. His resurgence is being discounted because of the TRT use, but that was his decision. I don't know why this is such a hard thing for people to realize, but drugs work. Thinking the gritty, old-school fighter that can beat the latest technology and science is a romanticized notion from “Rocky IV.” Maybe drugs can't make lower-tier fighters into superstars, but they have helped a man who was called "The Phenom" outshine the athletic achievements of his 20s.

    It feels terrible to admit, but I think many fans want Vitor to lose just so they don't have to deal with this uncomfortable fact. Then again, when it's a sport predicated upon beating a man unconscious or breaking his limbs, what do words like "honor" and "fairness" really mean? The TRT talk isn't about acting high and mighty or condescending – it's about the future of the sport. We just have to figure out what we want that to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XxChAoS32xX View Post
    I'm pretty sure that there has to be some diabetic fighters out there, and obviously commissions would make exemptions to the use of insulin when it is prescribed to a fighter, just as they do with TRT.

    Yes, using TRT when a fighter's testerone levels are normal is like steroids, because the fighter are raising his levels ABOVE normal, giving said fighter an unfair advantage when compared to a fighter with regular testosterone levels, so that is cheating.

    When a fighter uses TRT when it is prescribed to him as a medication to raise his testosterone levels to the NORMAL level, is putting him "on par" with other normal (non-cheating) fighters. Do so doesn't give him an unfair advantage, it treats his medical condition and eliminates what would be a unfair handicap, that is not cheating IMO.

    I'll admit though, I don't fully understand TRT, but from what I can research about it, you guys don't either.


    P.S. Here is a link to a page that tries to explain what Hormone Replacement Therapy is and how it differs from steroids. (Yes, TRT and HRT are the same thing, TRT is just a specific type of HRT)
    I don't know how to reply with all the quotes, and I can't be bothered, but I'll address your points in order:

    Sure there are, I never said there weren't diabetic fighters out there, my point is, the substance is on the banned list, and can be abused (and is abused) by athletes and shady doctors.

    Yeah, I'm sure Vitor's testosterone levels are low now, that's because he abused anabolic steroids when he was younger. Look at old Vitor videos back in the early UFC days. If you believe Vitor was clean back then I don't know what else to say. You don't need to see a dripping syringe to know the guy was juiced to the gills. Plus, he has already officially failed a drug test from back in 2006.

    Even if Vitor didn't mess up his body from prior steroid use (and that's a big if) how hard would it be to go to a doctor in Brazil and get a TRT prescription? "Hey doc I'm feeling kinda tired, how's my T-levels? Normal? Well here's $5K how are they now? Perfect". I'm not picking on Brazil only, there's shady doctors all over the place.


    I would hardly call going to ehow.com "research" but whatever. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by sending me to that article but there's nothing in it that I don't know already. The article states that the testosterone used in HRT is an anabolic steroid. It then basically says the differences between HRT and steroid abuse is that (a) one is legal and one is not, okay, I think we all knew that. And (b) The two activities differ in what their users are trying to achieve. Granted, but the article also says some people use HRT in an attempt get the same benefits as steroids. The article also says the FDA approves HRT for medical use but not for use in sport or bodybuilding. The article then goes on to list some of the side effects of HRT use which "...overlap with the illicit use of anabolic steroids".

    I think you helped prove my point.
    Last edited by earle; 11-10-2013 at 11:35 PM.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Without blinking I bitch slapped him right across the face and grabbed him and yelled, "You go out there and beat his ass!!!" Nate "The Rock" Quarry.

    "Shit just got real here in the Max!" Michael "The Voice" Schiavello at K-1 World Max Rd of 16 2010, Zambidis vs. Chahid.

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