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Thread: White: No reason Vitor Belfort shouldn't be able to use TRT in Nevada or anywhere els

  1. #21
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    Fair enough.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahdizzle View Post
    My problem with TRT in the sport is that these guys are supposedly considered athletes. Athletes should be naturally gifted specimens. Below average testosterone to me is no different than below average speed or strength. If Vitor wants to be on trt to have normal levels; then that's perfectly fine. Although nothing about that screams "elite" or "world class".
    My problem with this is the emerging connection between cutting weight and depleted testosterone levels in guys who are in their early 30s.

    Weight cutting is a problem in any sport, but it's so entrenched, from junior-varsity through collegiate levels that it won't go away. And it's getting worse, not better.

    Jon Jones touched on this subject also when he was dealing with Chael. TRT would actually be perfect if they weren't competing in one of the toughest sport in the world.
    I often wonder why Vitor gets sooooo much shit about this, and guys like sonnen and a host of other fighters get a pass.

    That being said, if Jones keeps cutting from 230ish to make LHW, I'm betting he changes his stance on TRT in about 8 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by earle View Post
    So, you're saying the FDA's current stance on TRT is due to doctored studies and bribery? Okay, who's bribing them and why?
    As Jody pointed out, the FDA sucks. There is a ton of emerging data on red dye #40, yellow #5 and 6 that the FDA has looked the other way on for years.

    I'd also point out that NCAA rules don't allow for the use of any supplements. If a collegiate athlete tests hot, they can't claim the Sean Sherk defense, because it doesn't matter: the NCAA's statement is that a healthy diet, rest and exercise regimen should allow an athlete to perform at the elite level. Clearly, the AC's don't adopt this policy.

    So simply drawing a line about TRT can be seen as pretty arbitrary. If lines are going to be drawn, I'd go with NCAA standards...but then it would be hard to peddle muscle milk and hydroxycut and the rest of the garbage that orgs and fighters get sponsorship money from.

    I say TRT = steroids, because you're still injecting an anabolic steroid, just because WADA has tougher criteria, it doesn't change that. Yes sure, there is difference between use and abuse but I contend that too often that line gets blurred, especially in MMA, while people like you are quick to give MMA athletes a pass. I guess I have a different perspective because I come from other sports, so I am naturally more skeptical.
    I'm not quick to give anyone a pass, but I find it amusing that some fighters are more vilified than others.
    If it was up to me, I'd only grant TRT exemptions to anyone willing to pay out of pocket for weekly tests to illustrate that there can't be abuse. Even though I despise zuffa's business practices for the most part, I feel that the burden should be placed on the athlete, not on the org.

    TRT can be steroids. It can be cheating. It often is. But not always. Use does not always equate to abuse.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by earle View Post
    I don't know how to reply with all the quotes, and I can't be bothered, but I'll address your points in order:

    Sure there are, I never said there weren't diabetic fighters out there, my point is, the substance is on the banned list, and can be abused (and is abused) by athletes and shady doctors.

    I would hardly call going to ehow.com "research" but whatever. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by sending me to that article but there's nothing in it that I don't know already. The article states that the testosterone used in HRT is an anabolic steroid. It then basically says the differences between HRT and steroid abuse is that (a) one is legal and one is not, okay, I think we all knew that. And (b) The two activities differ in what their users are trying to achieve. Granted, but the article also says some people use HRT in an attempt get the same benefits as steroids. The article also says the FDA approves HRT for medical use but not for use in sport or bodybuilding. The article then goes on to list some of the side effects of HRT use which "...overlap with the illicit use of anabolic steroids".

    I think you helped prove my point.
    Obviously I don't consider eHow as research, the other articles that I have read on TRT in the past are what I was referring to, I just couldn't remember and didn't feel like finding any direct links. I showed you that article because it is easy to read and points out that HRT/TRT is a medication that is used to treat a real condition.

    Lets say, hypothetically, that I have low testosterone levels and was prescribed TRT as treatment, not long after I'm on TRT I join a Semi-pro football team. Am I a cheater? In my opinion no, because without TRT I would be playing with a handicap that other players are not suffering from.

    The point to my post was that TRT is a medication, and there are certain situations that it's use should be exempted, just as insulin. I am not saying that TRT is as important to those with testosterone deficiency as insulin is to diabetics, obviously it is not. What I am saying is, if they still allow the use of insulin even though some athletes have abused it, then they should allow TRT even if some have abused it.

    It would be wrong to say to one group of fighters "You can still use your medication, even though some have abused it" and then turn around and say to a different group of fighters "You aren't allowed to use your medication, because some fighters have abused it"

    The problem is, I allowed my self to get off topic, I wasn't defending Vitor, to be honest I think you hit it right on the button when you said that his levels are low because of abuse of steroids in the past. I was defending the legitimate use of TRT because you guys were saying that TRT is always wrong and never acceptable, period, and I disagree with you, and so does the NSAC.
    Last edited by XxChAoS32xX; 11-11-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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    Riv, to say that Vitor is more vilified than Chael over the issue of TRT, is extremely far fetched.

    Outside of me, and maybe 2 or 3 other posters, everyone praises Vitor and thinks he's amazing.
    There are many paths to freedom, not all are peaceful



  5. #25
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    That's not true at all.

    People marvel at his recent accomplishments but most openly admit his transgressions. The change in his skillset and patience in striking is what makes people say wow.

    I know he got popped. I know his physique is insane and has been unbelievable at times. I also know 4-oht was banned in 04-05 and he got hit in 06 and many supplements still carried the compound. Do some research and you will see. Did he know it was dirty? Maybe, but if you know jack shit about steroids there are many many many stronger and more difficult substances that actually work. It's practically a waste and was placed on the banned list for anabolic properties but carries 35% less effectiveness than testosterone itself and stays in the system about the same time if not longer at 2-3 weeks.
    You say shark I say hey man, Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars


  6. #27
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    Example: It took the FDA over a decade to approve Stevia (a plant extract sweetener) due to constant lobbying as well as doctored studies presented from the corporations that produce Aspartame, Sucralose, Acesulfame Potassium, Sacchrain, Sorbitol/Mannitol and Xylitol. The FDA can be used as a mechanism in favor of those who are currently dominating an industry, be it pharma or food. The FDA has nothing to do with sanctioning athletics.






    Belfort got popped for using over-the-counter supplements like you get at GNC, unlike Bonnar and Leben who were popped for Stanzolol. Go ahead and continue your self-righteous indignation, Sakara. An amusing act, it is.
    Last edited by Sniggles; 11-11-2013 at 05:45 PM.


  7. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    Riv, to say that Vitor is more vilified than Chael over the issue of TRT, is extremely far fetched.

    Outside of me, and maybe 2 or 3 other posters, everyone praises Vitor and thinks he's amazing.
    Tell that to Kizer, who has stated he "probably" won't license Vitor to fight in NV...and yet has issued TUE to sonnen after chael not only lied to a hearing, openly admitted abuse of TRT, and lied about Kizer himself. Tell that to Ffowlkes who works himself into an internet hack lather about how tainted Vitor is every time his name comes up...and the legions of asswipes who can't tell the difference between his writing and good journalism.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    I was referring to this forum.
    There are many paths to freedom, not all are peaceful



  9. 11-11-2013, 06:27 PM


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