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Thread: UFC not re-signing Gilbert Melendez

  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree here.

    Competition benefits the consumer and forces each stakeholder to develop from within rather than poach talent before it reaches it's potential. Clearly, the policy of not interfering too much with the wec developed amazing athletes and look at how much better mma was during the pride years. Speculating on dream matches is natural and serves to keep fans more interested as well. Currently, you're fed matchups that are rarely if ever the two best and they're all under one banner as it is and they create fake hype to make it more interesting.

    A viable second option would force both parties to up their game and make the sport better all around. The singular vision of the ufc is not and should not be the be-all end-all of mma. The comparison to team sports simply doesn't fit here for a plethora of reasons but I would ask you to look no further than the aba to see just how awesome and innovative sports can be when there is a second option. Another clear example would be the Monday night wars. Also, the afl/nfl merger was probably not what you seem to believe.
    While I can see your point of team sports not fitting, I would say something such as the Monday Night Wars do not fit either. You are talking about an entertainment company driven solely by ratings. You never get the best vs the best because it doesn't really exist. You are fed what they want to give you and they modify when things do not work. This is close to what the UFC does today, and what many people complain about and it would only get worse with more Orgs.

    What I think we need here is 1 company but driven by a dedicated board who collectively make dec with negotiators who have the skill and understanding to do so within the boards given parameters.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Are you seeing all the fights you want to see within zuffa's roster? Or are they protecting some fighters, allowing others to dictate who and when they'll fight, etc?

    Simply having all the fighters in one org does nothing to ensure we'll get "the fights we want to see." If anything having one mega-org among smaller ones indicates we'll get more of a shell game and watered-down cards sold on overhype and misinformation.


    Lorenzo has been a disappointment. He stepped in when dana fucked up with the video game and Fitch called him out on it and got fired in the process. He's addressed a few small issues, but for the most part, I think he spends a lot of time stacking cash, without a lot of visible input to the daily running of the org. Although that may be a misperception on my part. He could be working tirelessly--but unseen--to get MMA licensed in NY.

    I just doubt it.

    rh
    I agree that having all fighters under one banner doesn't guarantee them fighting each other, and that the UFC has protected guys and put on less than stellar bouts as of late. But having them scattered in two or more organizations absolutely guarantees that some top guys won't fight other top guys. Why can't we just live in a world where promoters are honest, fighters fight to finish, and PPV cards are only $10 each?
    You have to know what you don't know.

  3. 02-17-2014, 01:43 PM


  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Return Of...... View Post
    What I think we need here is 1 company but driven by a dedicated board who collectively make dec with negotiators who have the skill and understanding to do so within the boards given parameters.
    The Consortium of Combat!!!!

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    This seems like a Vince Macmahon tactic, if you want to be in the biggest and best organization play ball be the company man and when we know your loyal and we own your ass we will pay you some serious money, until then you can take the decent offer that is still better then any other offer you will ever get and stfu.

    Wanna get paid more, win more. 1-1 in the UFC isnt doing anything for his brand right now.

    I wish more fighters were like Donald Cerrone, just fighting all the time and making money the easy way, knocking people the fuck out.
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    Someone needs to cheer for those poor souls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post
    The Consortium of Combat!!!!
    I like it...

  7. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree here.

    Competition benefits the consumer and forces each stakeholder to develop from within rather than poach talent before it reaches it's potential. Clearly, the policy of not interfering too much with the wec developed amazing athletes and look at how much better mma was during the pride years. Speculating on dream matches is natural and serves to keep fans more interested as well. Currently, you're fed matchups that are rarely if ever the two best and they're all under one banner as it is and they create fake hype to make it more interesting.

    A viable second option would force both parties to up their game and make the sport better all around. The singular vision of the ufc is not and should not be the be-all end-all of mma. The comparison to team sports simply doesn't fit here for a plethora of reasons but I would ask you to look no further than the aba to see just how awesome and innovative sports can be when there is a second option. Another clear example would be the Monday night wars. Also, the afl/nfl merger was probably not what you seem to believe.
    I look at it this way... I want to see Micheal Chandler fight Anthony Pettis and I also want to see Eddie Alvarez to fight Benson Henderson (just examples) with the two separate organizations existing in the manner they do that will not happen. That to me as a fan of the sport is not better what matters the most to me is having the best compete against the best no hype no drama.

    Individual competitive sports have done just fine with one dominate organization runing things... PGA for golf, ATP for tennis and so forth so it's not like MMA can't follow their lead. I'm not suggesting the UFC in it's current form is the answer for MMA long term and the sport needs to continue to grow and evolve from what it is... long term though the answer to me is not having the best talent split up where they never get the chance to compete.
    Last edited by Rise; 02-17-2014 at 09:13 PM.

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    Bjorn Rebney discusses Gilbert Melendez deal and how it came about
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/2/17/5420354/bjorn-rebney-discusses-gilbert-melendez-deal-and-how-it-came-about
    Rebney indicated this wouldn't be the last time something like this would happen. He noted they are going to aggressively go after the best fighters when they are legally allowed to, and said they are in talks with name talent right now.

    "Some of them you'd know by first name alone, and some are guys you've never heard of who will become the next Michael Chandler, Daniel Straus, Eddie Alvarez and Eduardo Dantas."

    Bellator will open its weekly Friday night live card schedule on Spike TV starting on Feb. 28, run though May, do monthly shows in the summer, and have a fall season of weekly shows from September through November. Rebney noted it's going to be all out from now until he sits down to eat Thanksgiving dinner.

    "We're gong to continue to sign the best fighters, whether they are from a favela in Brazil, the frozen tundra of Siberia, or they are fighting in the UFC," he said. "That's the mission. The fighters are the ones fueling pay-per-view buys or fueling cable television ratings. You're not fueling ratings by promoting Bjorn or Bellator. Promoting the fighters should be first and foremost.

    "We're going after everybody, more-and-more often. I think there's a bigger picture issue. The biggest thing is there are two major players in MMA. It's far and away better for the fighters. When a fighter has one option, he has no power at the negotiating table. But when he has two options, the fighter has all the negotiating power. That's actually counter intuitive, coming from the CEO of a fight company. But that's the truth. And my checkbook may take a shot because of it. But if the fighters can earn what they feel they deserve, overall we and the sport will be in a better place. You're going to see much more of this as we move forward, guys coming from the smallest regions where we find undiscovered talent, to the superstars from the UFC and other guys we find in the United States."

    The Melendez contract obviously calls for a number of fights, as well as a cut of any pay-per-view shows he's a headliner in, but also has a number of topics covered outside the cage.

    "I can't be too specific," said Rebney. "But it includes on-air opportunities, entertainment opportunities behind-the-scenes, some marketing opportunities, really, the whole genesis is Gil-specific. The key to the deal is building the Gilbert Melendez brand, not the Bellator brand or the Bjorn Rebney brand. The fighter's brand is what's important. The focus was on talking to Gil and his team. How do we leverage all the different resources to build the `El Nino' brand, and that's what got us all on the same side of the table to put this structure together."

    Melendez (22-3), was the No. 2 contender in UFC's lightweight division, behind champion Anthony Pettis and former champion Benson Henderson. With Josh Thomson's loss to Henderson on Jan. 26 in Chicago, and Henderson having two losses to Pettis, it put Melendez at the front of the line for a title shot. But that shot would be delayed if a Pettis vs. UFC featherweight champion Jose Aldo superfight was to be made this summer.

    If UFC declines to match, Bellator will then schedule Melendez's first match.

    "You can start with (Eddie) Alvarez (Bellator's lightweight champion, (Michael) Chandler (former champion and current top contender), (Will) Brooks, (Dave) Jansen, all those fights would be awesome," said Rebney.
    Rebney used Alvarez's name constantly in the discussion of potential fights for Melendez. A few years back, when Melendez was the Strikeforce lightweight champion and Alvarez was Bellator's champion, prior to the Zuffa purchase of the Strikeforce brand, Rebney publicly tried to garner publicity for such a match. It never got past his call-out stage since then-Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker, who had a stronger brand at the time and more exposure, had no interest in such a deal. But it is notable because many have thought it was inevitable Alvarez would be headed to UFC after his next fight with Chandler.

    If Melendez signs, it would be Bellator coming full circle.

    "Gil was the first big name I tried to recruit in 2008," said Rebney, who at the time was looking for Hispanic fighters after he got funding to start the promotion and had cleared a time slot for 2009 on ESPN Deportes. "I jumped on the plane from Chicago to Northern California, sat down with Gil, and talked about the vision I had. It's now like it's night and day. Today, we're the second-largest MMA organization in the world, we're beating UFC ratings on cable, and then I was a guy flying Southwest with an idea and a dream. He was a great listener. He had a great vision of what he wanted to accomplish, and he was wise beyond his years, even then. You could see his skill level. Now he's gone about maximizing his opportunities. But he was the first guy I went after. A few years later, I tried hard to figure out a way to do Alvarez vs. Melendez. We've been patient and built up the foundation, we have the right partners, the best broadcasting partner in MMA history, and now we may have Alvarez vs. Melendez or Alvarez vs. Chandler."

    Numbers on cable for both groups vary greatly. The biggest UFC events on its new home of Fox Sports 1 have drawn more viewers than Bellator's biggest events, even with the disadvantage of being a weaker overall station and being available in nine million fewer homes. The biggest Bellator shows of the last season did beat all but the highest UFC shows on its new home.

    Ironically, when Melendez opted to stay with Strikeforce in 2008, it was Alvarez, a star in Japan who wasn't well known in the United States, who Rebney signed to be the top star of his new group. To do so, he offered Alvarez a deal for significantly more than UFC was offering at the time.

    If Melendez comes to Bellator, that will not affect plans for the company's first pay-per-view, scheduled for this spring, headlined by Alvarez vs. Chandler III. Rebney said that show is locked in. A planned pay-per-view in November fell though when Tito Ortiz, one of the headliners, was injured, and the second Alvarez vs. Chandler match, originally set for that show, ended up headlining a Spike TV special.

    Rebney stated Melendez wants to get started as soon as possible. If UFC doesn't match the deal, he would like to debut Melendez this spring, which with the Alvarez vs. Chandler III fight already on the books, means his first fight would be against someone else. If he should win that, his second fight could be the big one.

    Should Melendez win, a fight against the Alvarez vs. Chandler winner would seem an obvious direction. With pay-per-view a facet of Melendez's contract, it could figure to be the company's second show in that arena. Rebney is already thinking of ways to promote such a fight.

    "There were two fights that could have battled for fight of the year last year," he said. "Michael vs. Ed II (Nov. 2 in Long Beach, Calif.) and the other was Gil vs. Diego (Sanchez, Oct. 19 in Houston). Those were two epic fights, both in the 155-pound division."

    Rebney noted it's too early to script out exactly what the direction would be, but he's salivating at the prospective opportunities.

    "We'd like to get Gil busy," he said. "Gil would like to fight at the same time as Ed vs. Michael III on that pay-per-view or on a major Spike show like we did with Rampage. There are some very legitimate other options and we're looking at all of them. But for now, we have to wait out and see what UFC does."

    Rebney said the negotiations for a deal began as soon as they got word from the representatives of Melendez that they were legally able to talk about a potential deal in late January.

    "It really started when they reached out to us," he said. "I didn't realize the status of his deal. As soon as they reached out, we started discussions.

    "We went for two-and-a-half weeks, with a lot of back-and-forth. I recognized there was a shared vision of what would be the best thing for Gil, but inside and outside the cage. After speaking with Gil at length, and hearing from him what he wanted to accomplish with his career, both short-term and long-term, we then worked with Rodolphe Beaulieu (Melendez's agent) and CAA to put together a package he was looking for. It came together pretty quickly."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    I look at it this way... I want to see Micheal Chandler fight Anthony Pettis and I also want to see Eddie Alvarez to fight Benson Henderson (just examples) with the two separate organizations existing in the manner they do that will not happen. That to me as a fan of the sport is not better what matters the most to me is having the best compete against the best no hype no drama.

    Individual competitive sports have done just fine with one dominate organization runing things... PGA for golf, ATP for tennis and so forth so it's not like MMA can't follow their lead. I'm not suggesting the UFC in it's current form is the answer for MMA long term and the sport needs to continue to grow and evolve from what it is... long term though the answer to me is not having the best talent split up where they never get the chance to compete.
    No.

    Tennis has a million governing bodies and ATP isn't even the top one. It's the itf. Also, its a tournament system with seeding rather than matchmaking like mma.

    The PGA tour is a completely different animal and you should look into how and why it came about.

    What you are missing in your comparisons is the obvious point that all of the professional sports you have mentioned consist of leagues, not a private profit-driven company which holds the full rights to the participants and their marketing.
    And the piano, it sounds like a carnival
    And the microphone smells like a beer

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    No.

    Tennis has a million governing bodies and ATP isn't even the top one. It's the itf. Also, its a tournament system with seeding rather than matchmaking like mma.

    The PGA tour is a completely different animal and you should look into how and why it came about.

    What you are missing in your comparisons is the obvious point that all of the professional sports you have mentioned consist of leagues, not a private profit-driven company which holds the full rights to the participants and their marketing.
    And I've already conceded that the UFC in it's current format is not the ideal or the most likely way for the sport to succeed long terrm. I've never said the Zuffa vision is what I'm supporting.

    My point is and still is that having fighters competing for different companies is not the way to go either. You mentioned Pride in another post and how MMA was great back then because of it. It was but we were robbed of someone money great fights that either happened way to late in careers or never at all. The innovation and growth of sports doesn't just come from having competing organizations it's also because of amazing fights/games and rivalries. When the best don't compete with each other we lose that opportunity.

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    As I said earlier, we're dealing with companies and as such, one has practically a monopoly on the upper-rung of the sport. I believe we can all concede that.

    When you're dealing with companies who are not bound by a trade group, jurisdictions, or any type of trade group, they control the product and are able to feed it to the public with little or no question on whether or not the product is quality. A second viable entity would immediately cause the commanding company to examine its product and elevate its quality to maintain its market control.

    The innovation and growth of sports doesn't just come from having competing organizations it's also because of amazing fights/games and rivalries.
    Rivalries are based on history and growing a product from the ground up creates these situations.

    It was but we were robbed of someone money great fights that either happened way to late in careers or never at all.
    I agree that I always want to see the best fight the best and I want it right now but that's a very short-sighted. What is far better for the sport is for two great fighters to build a legacy and for them to eventually face off. However, the current Zuffa model would never support that regardless of the concessions of another company to co-promote. I believe DFW and the Fertittas learned their lesson when their golden boy Chuck ate canvas in Japan and couldn't even earn a shot at Wanderlei.
    And the piano, it sounds like a carnival
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