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Thread: Tito Ortiz steps down as Cris Cyborg's manager

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Yes and no.

    She certainly screwed herself by juicing. But you're overlooking the history of the situation.

    Rousey started at 145 in women's MMA, and yapped about getting a shot at Cyborg when Cris was on top and Ronda was a relative nobody. Conveniently, before that fight could materialize, Rousey dropped down to 135 to get an unearned title shot against Tate [remember, this was Coker--he gave Rogers a title shot against AO after Brett had been KTFO'd in his previous fight, and it was after zuffa purchased it--I can't imagine any pressure was being put on him to come up with a big star--and then suddenly she was Queen of the May. She spends a year and a half talking shit about Cyborg, and suddenly Cyborg should come and face her.

    Cris just made the situation worse by juicing and getting caught. Her stock plummeted.

    zuffa could bolster a 145 division that wouldn't be any shallower than bantamweight...but Cris is damaged goods, they don't want to waste the push on her that they give Ronda.

    But it still doesn't make her any less talented.

    And she'd KILL Rousey.

    rh
    Yes, I know how Rousey dropped down to 135 and how she got the shot. Really, I don't see how that falls on White's neck. Whether or not Cris would take the fight at 135 came down to Cyborg. 135 is Rousey's natural weight class as at 145 she was carrying alot of pudge. It would be just as disadvantageous for her to go up to 145. Honestly, I don't see Rousey as having wanted to fight Cyborg whatsoever, rather she was attempting to garner media attention and celebrity. I can't see how she was not goaded into doing so by higher-ups or management. When Rousey transitioned to the UFC, Cyborg was made the offer of the fight right before she got popped and she turned it down. This was when the articles came out that her manager stated that Cyborg would die if she dropped to 135. Cyborg could have snatched that opportunity. The thing about opportunities is that they are often fleeting.

    Besides, Rousey lost the weight to compete at 135 and now is no longer a 145 fighter. It would be like Penn jumping up to WW at this point. Cyborg turned down the fight at 135. Nothing stopped her from conditionally accepting upon weight cutting attempts, or even attempting to shed muscle (there are ways). It's up to Cyborg, but one thing is clear is that 145 is not where Rousey will go. If Cris wants the fight, she has to go to Ronda's realm.



    Also, The UFC could make a 145 division, but having a 115 division makes more sense if they are going to roll out a division at a time.

  2. #22
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    Ah...so when Ronda talks shit to Cyborg, she's not doing it of her own free will, she was "goaded" into it by management...but when Cyborg--as the undeniably #1 p4p female fighter on the planet--is lowballed an offer from zuffa and her management refuses, her actions were...of her own free will?

    Got it. No double standard there.



    I don't have any skin in the game. I'm not a Cyborg fan. I believe she was a juicer long before she got caught. I'm not a Rousey fan. I feel she's a marginally big fish in a shallow pool, nor do I find her physically or emotionally attractive. If I'm going to watch a one trick pony, I'll stick with Sakoto Shinasi. She was better than Ronda, fought against much bigger opponents, and Rousey would have to win her next 10 or 12 bouts to catch up to her.

    But there is a ton of revisionist history going on, and I hate that bullshit. This is on the same level as Overeem pretending Fedor was ducking him, instead of vice versa. It's just sad to see it happen and worse to the the ignorant fan that zuffa caters to buy into the nonsense.

    rh
    Last edited by rivethead; 02-16-2014 at 10:40 PM.
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  3. #23
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    What effect does a positive steroid test have on one's P4P status? I will concede that Cyborg gets more heat for her positive steroid test than her male counterparts, but whoever holds the UFC women's title will be the de facto face of women's MMA. An former medal winning olympian is a much better flagbearer for women's MMA in America than a former (I'm hoping she's stopped) steroid user.

    To be fair, with regards to Shinasi, you are comparing someone at the relative start of their career to the accomplishments of what someone has by the end of their career. Ronda is 27 and is 8-0. At 27, Shinasi was 12-0-1. Ronda won't hit 33 fights in her career as that sort of fight frequency is a thing of the past in the top tier organizations but that is no fault of hers. The one comparison I would be curious about is what percentage of Shinasi's opponents had grappling training or had as developed of camps as Ronda's current opponents have.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasha K View Post
    And why Rousey can not go up to 145 pounds? As far as I know, she competed in Judo in the 145 division, so it should not be a problem for her.
    Can't really base what her MMA weigh in should be based off what she did in Judo not really the same thing

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    zuffa could bolster a 145 division that wouldn't be any shallower than bantamweight...but Cris is damaged goods, they don't want to waste the push on her that they give Ronda.
    This to me is why the UFC won't gamble on her.. like you said damaged goods. It's a hard sell putting someone in the ring that looks like Cynorg does against other women that don't have remotely close to the same build. With her history of abuse it's just a PR nightmare.

    And she'd KILL Rousey.
    Most likely at either weight yes... but I think Cyborg at a clean 135 doesn't steamroll Rousey quite so easily

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GangGreenWarrior View Post
    What effect does a positive steroid test have on one's P4P status?
    If you determine p4p like dana--ie, pin the label on someone you want to more effectively market to an audience of sheep, it's devastating.

    If you actually try to determine it based on skill sets, it's less impactful.

    I will concede that Cyborg gets more heat for her positive steroid test than her male counterparts, but whoever holds the UFC women's title will be the de facto face of women's MMA. An former medal winning olympian is a much better flagbearer for women's MMA in America than a former (I'm hoping she's stopped) steroid user.
    I agree with all of that.

    But it doesn't justify re-writing history and utterly distorting the truth.

    To be fair, with regards to Shinasi, you are comparing someone at the relative start of their career to the accomplishments of what someone has by the end of their career. Ronda is 27 and is 8-0. At 27, Shinasi was 12-0-1. Ronda won't hit 33 fights in her career as that sort of fight frequency is a thing of the past in the top tier organizations but that is no fault of hers. The one comparison I would be curious about is what percentage of Shinasi's opponents had grappling training or had as developed of camps as Ronda's current opponents have.
    ...I was focusing more on her actual skillset, and the fact that while she weighed less than 100, she was often fighting opponents who were 120ish.

    We'll see where Ronda is by the time she's 30.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Can't really base what her MMA weigh in should be based off what she did in Judo not really the same thing
    Again, fully half her MMA career has been at 145 or higher. It wasn't just Judo.

    This to me is why the UFC won't gamble on her.. like you said damaged goods. It's a hard sell putting someone in the ring that looks like Cynorg does against other women that don't have remotely close to the same build. With her history of abuse it's just a PR nightmare.
    But that's not what is being said. Revisionist history is always bullshit.

    Most likely at either weight yes... but I think Cyborg at a clean 135 doesn't steamroll Rousey quite so easily
    I disagree. Cyborg's grappling is nearly as good as Rousey's, and her striking is light years ahead in variety, power, speed and defense.

    I don't like her, but I think she walks through Ronda at any weight. Which is something zuffa doesn't want to happen to an emerging draw.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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