Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 15 of 15

Thread: Michael Bisping: Belfort will find new way to cheat, Weidman will get another asteris

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    well if i were bisping id like to forget those trt losses too, cant say i blame the guy for trying to stay relevant not that its working he better get past kennedy with a finish. there a bunch of brazilian who dont need trt standing in the way. i dont think he can beat any of the four brazilians. if chael sticks around id like to see a rematch

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    11,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre View Post
    Think of it like this, Vitor was 14-8 at age 29 when he was popped after the Hendo fight in 2006.

    Over the past eight years since, he's gone 10 and 2 only dropping bouts to Jones and Silva-WOW. That's really impressive and dare I say, TOO IMPRESSIVE from a statistical perspective, given that traditionally speaking- he should be winding down his career, already hit his peak and should be experiencing a gradual plateau and decline....yet instead we're seeing career highlights with his advancement in age, looking far and far superior with each and every fight.

    This shouldn't happen, and having already been popped once while also having a bad reputation prior to being popped, massive question marks and alarm bells should go off every time Vitor fights. Go back and look at the statistics of MLB baseball players in the late 90s to mid '00s, you're going to see ALOT of major statistical anomalies, where guys hit a career plateau around 30, begin to decline and then, against common sense, SURGE in their mid to late 30s....

    Vitor will be 37 years old on April Fools and his last three wins will have been against ranked opponents via VIOLENT finishes and is now fighting for the title. He's been fighting dirty. The question now is, which route is he going to take? A) He'll find another way to cheat or B) Fight clean and start looking human and get the hell kicked out of you. If he goes with the later, Vitor's going to look like a completely different fighter.....like a 37 year old without any extra pickmeups
    I can't say if Belfort is abusing TRT or not...I don't think anyone can, regardless of their self-righteous--and often hypocritical--attitudes. I think it's as likely as not, but the absolute conviction people have on the subject is pretty pathetic.

    But since you're bringing up Vitor's career, you need to factor in one enormous issue that is hardly ever brought up in the discussion of Vitor and juicing. Vitor was an absolute monster when he first started the sport. His first big streak he looks something similar to his latest run, where he had something like 10 wins with his losses only coming to Couture, Sakuraba and Liddell--and he was a kid at the time, something like 22 years old, fighting all three of those guys during, or at the start of, their dominant runs.

    And then Priscila went missing. He had no idea if she was alive, if she was dead, or what had happened.

    A huge part of the fight game is mental. Joe Riggs can tell you about having all the physical tools to succeed, but not the mental/emotional component.

    Priscilla's loss put snakes in Vitor's head. The period where nobody had accurate information on her fate is the darkest period of his history.



    When did Vitor finally get word on her fate? At the start of his most recent success, right after the loss to Dan Henderson.



    I'm not trying to convince anyone he's not a juicer. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion on that, as it's all conjecture at best. But I do want to postulate that having an emotional resolution of that magnitude can have a huge impact on a fighter's focus and their performance, both in training and in the cage.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greater Toronto Area.
    Posts
    14,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I can't say if Belfort is abusing TRT or not...I don't think anyone can, regardless of their self-righteous--and often hypocritical--attitudes. I think it's as likely as not, but the absolute conviction people have on the subject is pretty pathetic.

    But since you're bringing up Vitor's career, you need to factor in one enormous issue that is hardly ever brought up in the discussion of Vitor and juicing. Vitor was an absolute monster when he first started the sport. His first big streak he looks something similar to his latest run, where he had something like 10 wins with his losses only coming to Couture, Sakuraba and Liddell--and he was a kid at the time, something like 22 years old, fighting all three of those guys during, or at the start of, their dominant runs.

    And then Priscila went missing. He had no idea if she was alive, if she was dead, or what had happened.

    A huge part of the fight game is mental. Joe Riggs can tell you about having all the physical tools to succeed, but not the mental/emotional component.

    Priscilla's loss put snakes in Vitor's head. The period where nobody had accurate information on her fate is the darkest period of his history.



    When did Vitor finally get word on her fate? At the start of his most recent success, right after the loss to Dan Henderson.



    I'm not trying to convince anyone he's not a juicer. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion on that, as it's all conjecture at best. But I do want to postulate that having an emotional resolution of that magnitude can have a huge impact on a fighter's focus and their performance, both in training and in the cage.

    rh
    I' won't challenge the Randy III, Tito, Hendo losses too much because as you acknowledged, he had the personal turmoil etc. But when you look at "method of victory" let's say, 36 year old Vitor is just blowing pre-Priscilla Vitor out of the water with regard to finishing rate and against a FAAAAAAR higher level of competition than he was facing then.

    We've had this discussion before, Priscilla disappeared in January of 2004, so for argument's sake, let's say the "Pre-Priscilla" Vitor's record stood at 11-3, analyzing those fights prior, what you referred to as his "first big streak". IMO, we'd already seen him win some pretty uninspired decisions against Herring, Matsui and Yvel. During his first PRIDE run, which had nothing to do with his sister, he looked listless and wasn't a "contender" so to speak. Of those wins on his record, he had the squash UFC tournament and Joe Charles. Really, his only real "important wins" came against Wandy(who was also still a pup) and Tank. Couture was supposed to be a body for Vitor as they built him and Couture outsmarted him stylistically, but I wouldn't account for that loss in the same vein as Chuck and Sakuraba's, as Randy was new to the sport as well(albeit older in age).

    My endgame is, there's no accounting for his poor performances in PRIDE the first time around outside of a simple slump, but the first half of his career- pre-Priscilla- doesn't look as good as what we've seen since his most recent UFC run and I think from a statistical perspective, those fights don't look consistent, factoring finishing rate, level of opposition etc.

    True, the mental game is an unbelievably MAJOR factor, I just do not believe the fighter Vitor is today should be as good as he is, and when you take a look at a sample of his "prime fighting years" (some of which were lost due to his sister's murder, that's taken into account, so let's go Eastman and prior), he's far exceeded what I'd attribute to "the mental game" at a late stage in his career. The fact that he's also been popped once before is a red flag.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    11,935

    Default

    Fedorhuckleberrylie, I'm not saying it can all be attributed to Priscila, by any means.

    I think it's more likely than not that Vitor is [was?] abusing TRT. But it's not definite, any more than my suspicions about lesnar or overeem or whomever.

    In terms of his lackluster performances as a kid [I thought he and Wandi started about the same time?], I think you also have to factor in that he was probably young, dumb and full of c....onfidence. I can't help but think a kid of his talent was running around partying and wasn't focused. His early interviews indicate to me that he was confident in his natural ability and wasn't killing himself in the gym. Not to mention that he was fighting outside his weight half the time.

    But fast forward to 2007 and onward, he's married, he's found the baby Jesus, he's had a brush with discipline from the failed test [whether his doc was lying or not, that's still got to be a bit unnerving for a fighter]...this is approaching last-chance-ville. He's got all the experience--both physical/training and out-of-the-gym to indicate what he should be doing, he's finally getting world-class money to pay for world-class guidance, he gets to lay to rest his doubts and fears about his sister and focus.

    That alone is going to be formidable.

    If he was juicing, he's going to be THAT much MORE formidable.



    I don't think we'll ever know the full backstory, but time will tell, I guess. That's if he ever fights again.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greater Toronto Area.
    Posts
    14,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    That alone is going to be formidable.

    If he was juicing, he's going to be THAT much MORE formidable.

    I don't think we'll ever know the full backstory, but time will tell, I guess. That's if he ever fights again.

    rh
    That I 100% agree with.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •