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Thread: Will Athletic Commissions ever address Extreme Weight Cuts?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Return Of...... View Post
    1. Doesn't that happen at HW now?
    2. If its same day weigh in do you think you can really lose / gain 10 pounds in that day?
    1. That is why I a support cruiserweight division. Also, after a certain weight, weight advantages aren't as big of factor. The top HWs
    JDS, Cain and DC before he dropped were pretty small for HW. Most of the top LHWS are big for the division.
    2. I really am not sure exactly how much people can or can't cut weight. But it doesn't really matter. Fighters that are slightly too big to cut MW get screwed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    It also opens the door for titles being held up by champs that want to fight in multiple divisions to win championships in both... which is a bad thing in my opinion. Several divisions are already weak on top 10 talent as is and splitting the division in half makes them worse. Sure some guys may be able to bounce between the two but they may only do it just to get a fight... other guys will stick to the shallower talent pool of one division because they can be a top 5 guy there.
    All valid points. It would be up to the UFC to keep their champions in line and keep them focused on fighting for their title. It wouldn't be splitting divisions in half it would be adding two more divisions. I also think a couple more champs would be a good thing. The UFC has 9 champs and still has PPVs with championship fights. The talent pool also continues to grow every year so the top 10 talent will continue to grow as well.
    In the scenario mentioned if you were a 197lbs you'd alter your diet and training overall and drop that 7lbs and fight in the lower division
    Than fighters are competing with a lot less muscle mass than ideal for them to have the best performance possible. I would prefer more matchups with fighters competing at their ideal weight. I realize my scenario will make problems the UFC is facing worse but the good outweighs the bad, as a hypothetical situation. Breaking up divisions and stripping champions would be very problematic at first for the UFC.
    "If a man with no arms and a man with no legs started learning karate, the same light bulb would appear over every head in Japan. That’s right: Glue them together and see if it can kill a panda."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    It also opens the door for titles being held up by champs that want to fight in multiple divisions to win championships in both... which is a bad thing in my opinion. Several divisions are already weak on top 10 talent as is and splitting the division in half makes them worse. Sure some guys may be able to bounce between the two but they may only do it just to get a fight... other guys will stick to the shallower talent pool of one division because they can be a top 5 guy there.
    if I were supreme overlord [again, following the executions], every time a champion fights, he would defend his belt.
    no vanity fights, no superfights without belts being on the line. If a fighter wanted to move up and test himself, he walks away from the belt.

    Champions would also have to defend every 9 months, minimum.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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  3. #33
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    Who's getting executed first?

    Also; guillotine, beheading, hanging, or firing squad?
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    I've always liked strudel.




  4. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    if I were supreme overlord [again, following the executions], every time a champion fights, he would defend his belt.
    no vanity fights, no superfights without belts being on the line. If a fighter wanted to move up and test himself, he walks away from the belt.

    Champions would also have to defend every 9 months, minimum.

    rh
    Fully agree and I'd even shorten the defense time frame down to 6 months.

  5. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalebarker View Post
    All valid points. It would be up to the UFC to keep their champions in line and keep them focused on fighting for their title. It wouldn't be splitting divisions in half it would be adding two more divisions. I also think a couple more champs would be a good thing. The UFC has 9 champs and still has PPVs with championship fights. The talent pool also continues to grow every year so the top 10 talent will continue to grow as well.
    The talent pool is growing but the rate has tapered off considerably in comparison to 5-10 years ago just look at the difference between the fighters that make the cut from an episode of TUF nowadays in comparison to the early years.

    Than fighters are competing with a lot less muscle mass than ideal for them to have the best performance possible. I would prefer more matchups with fighters competing at their ideal weight. I realize my scenario will make problems the UFC is facing worse but the good outweighs the bad, as a hypothetical situation. Breaking up divisions and stripping champions would be very problematic at first for the UFC.
    I get competing at their ideal weight but I think a 7lb drop in weight is not a significant amount to alter a performance there has to be some give there. If there was a huge pool of guys that can perform and be top fighters I'd be ok with several more weight classes. As is though outside of lightweight the talent pools drop off pretty significantly once you get outside of the top 7-8 guys.

  6. #37
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    60 grit sandpaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Fully agree and I'd even shorten the defense time frame down to 6 months.
    I'd pick 9 months to allow for champs to recover from most injuries that might occur during training. If they're fighting on a 5 month schedule, it gives them 4 months to recover from anything that they might get in camp.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

  7. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    The talent pool is growing but the rate has tapered off considerably in comparison to 5-10 years ago just look at the difference between the fighters that make the cut from an episode of TUF nowadays in comparison to the early years.
    The rate of growth in talent has decreased but it is still going pretty good. We are now just starting to see the effect of mma athletes spending most of their life training MMA as opposed to transitioning into MMA after focusing on other disciplines.

    The lack of impact of TUF fighters has to do with a few factors. The depth of the UFC and the average skill level is on a much higher level than it was during the early TUFs. The Diego Sanchez's and Forrest Griffins were breaking into a small pond. If the recent TUF casts were competing to fight the talent pool of 2005 they would have a much bigger impact. The UFC was a small pond at that time. The rise of secondary MMA promotions makes it harder to sign the more talented prospects to TUF tryouts. A fighter could go through the shittiness of being in the TUF house for a shitty contract that pays 100k over 6 fights or something like that, or they could sign with Bellator win a couple fights and earn entry into a tournament that pays 100ks to winner of the finals. Bellator is especially good at finding talent.

    If you were to look at the skill level of the average fighter on a UFC card year by year the growth hasn't been stymied all that much IMO. Now more than ever we are seeing iron sharpen iron.

    I get competing at their ideal weight but I think a 7lb drop in weight is not a significant amount to alter a performance there has to be some give there. If there was a huge pool of guys that can perform and be top fighters I'd be ok with several more weight classes. As is though outside of lightweight the talent pools drop off pretty significantly once you get outside of the top 7-8 guys.
    I think 7lbs would make a noticeable difference. One thing to consider is more fighters at an ideal weight will bring performance levels of the UFC roster up as whole and make it deeper because of that. That is just my opinion though. We can agree to disagree on whether more classes would be an improvement.
    "If a man with no arms and a man with no legs started learning karate, the same light bulb would appear over every head in Japan. That’s right: Glue them together and see if it can kill a panda."

  8. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I'd pick 9 months to allow for champs to recover from most injuries that might occur during training. If they're fighting on a 5 month schedule, it gives them 4 months to recover from anything that they might get in camp.
    I was thinking within a 6 month time frame they should defend the belt assuming they were healthy and ready to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by kalebarker View Post
    The rate of growth in talent has decreased but it is still going pretty good. We are now just starting to see the effect of mma athletes spending most of their life training MMA as opposed to transitioning into MMA after focusing on other disciplines.
    It's still growing I don't disagree just not to the level to support more divisions at leas to me

    The lack of impact of TUF fighters has to do with a few factors. The depth of the UFC and the average skill level is on a much higher level than it was during the early TUFs. The Diego Sanchez's and Forrest Griffins were breaking into a small pond. If the recent TUF casts were competing to fight the talent pool of 2005 they would have a much bigger impact. The UFC was a small pond at that time. The rise of secondary MMA promotions makes it harder to sign the more talented prospects to TUF tryouts. A fighter could go through the shittiness of being in the TUF house for a shitty contract that pays 100k over 6 fights or something like that, or they could sign with Bellator win a couple fights and earn entry into a tournament that pays 100ks to winner of the finals. Bellator is especially good at finding talent.
    With Strikeforce gone one of the options talent had to go to in the past is not there.. at one point Strikeforce and Bellator were both options and TUF was still pulling in better talent. I just don't see as many quality guys coming out of a season of TUF as there used to be.

    [quote]If you were to look at the skill level of the average fighter on a UFC card year by year the growth hasn't been stymied all that much IMO. Now more than ever we are seeing iron sharpen iron.[quote]

    I agree overall skill level is higher when you gte into the top 5 or so... Guys like Jones, Gustaffson, Cormier as examples push each other to get better... it's when you get outside those guys the disparity becomes more apparent.

    I think 7lbs would make a noticeable difference. One thing to consider is more fighters at an ideal weight will bring performance levels of the UFC roster up as whole and make it deeper because of that. That is just my opinion though. We can agree to disagree on whether more classes would be an improvement.
    Ideally I agree that fighting at the ideal optimal weight is best and more likely to give you the best matches. But say using 195lb as a class you get a handful of guys from 185 and 205 moving into it that deplete their former division and the skill gap still exists it's just spread out across more divisions.

    Like you said agree to disagree.. I do think a 5-10lb difference in one competitor to the next is a pretty negligible difference though

  9. #40
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    I have been saying this for years so I fully support this idea. The goal should be for everyone to fight at their "walk around" weight. The whole idea of weight classes was to have fights between similar sized fighters. I'm NOT calling any fighter a coward but extreme weight-cutting is a cowardly process - to be bigger than your opponent rather than more skilled.

    It's a huge health risk as well because of the strikes to the head and the loss of water in the brain's protective membrane. I think this is just as big of problem as PEDs.
    Talk is cheap...because supply exceeds demand.

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