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Thread: Nate Diaz Complains & Dana White Responds

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    So future prospects could be look at someone Jones, Cain, Hendricks, Pettis, JDS, Benson, Edgar Melendez, Weidman, Gustaffson, Cormier all of who started out making less then Nate and have out performed him in their division and see that there certainly is a reason to pursue and MMA career.

    The only thing a future prospect should take away from the Nate Diaz situation is to not hire any idiot manager and to actually take the time to read a contract and be willing to honor it and be happy about it before signing
    I actually think that you can not expect to make a living only with MMA.
    All those fighters you mentioned are exceptions, they are UFC champions or at least big draws. They are a huge minority. Even the likes of Nate Diaz are a minority.

    The majority of guys fight in very small leagues for a very very small amount of money.
    If they want to survive, they definitely need a regular job.

    Unless you are some really really good fighter and have at least some good contacts, you will not survive with MMA being your only profession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasha K View Post
    I actually think that you can not expect to make a living only with MMA.
    All those fighters you mentioned are exceptions, they are UFC champions or at least big draws. They are a huge minority. Even the likes of Nate Diaz are a minority.

    The majority of guys fight in very small leagues for a very very small amount of money.
    If they want to survive, they definitely need a regular job.

    Unless you are some really really good fighter and have at least some good contacts, you will not survive with MMA being your only profession.
    Absolutely when you start out as a fighter you won't survive on that income alone. Most guys that are in the beginning stages of their professional athletic careers live on pretty meager earnings.

    While the upper echelon of high income earners in the UFC is a minority there are plenty of guys making a pretty significant amount of money just on fight purses alone. Enough to live comfortable and ahead of the average household income. As well as having multiple other avenues to earn from with sponsorships, appearances at events and seminars, and media opportunities. (Granted they aren't making that through the UFC but their affiliation with it certainly helps). Though I do really like the concept behind how Hendricks management team has set things up and hopefully something we see more of in the future.


    My point had way more to do with what Dbader was saying though and how Nate's salary might negatively effect potential prospects from choosing to be fighters. And I still say any prospect with some brains and confidence is not going to use Nate's status as a benchmark for their career

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat--Smasher View Post
    Well I guess we disagree on how much an elite level fighter should be paid.

    As for your claim, "he has dropped loses to every top 10 fighter he has ever faced", I guess you missed his last fight where he knocked Maynard silly or his fight with Cerrone or Jim Miller.
    Those guys are UFC top 10 LW's, but not MMA top 10 LW's. And Maynard still in the top 10 shows how shallow the division is becoming. He isnt a great fighter, he will not hold UFC gold, and for that he is getting paid very well for what he is, a gatekepper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Those guys are UFC top 10 LW's, but not MMA top 10 LW's. And Maynard still in the top 10 shows how shallow the division is becoming. He isnt a great fighter, he will not hold UFC gold, and for that he is getting paid very well for what he is, a gatekepper.
    I call bs to the gatekeeper part. Nate could (and has) fight for the title with three or four more wins. He is still young. I am not saying he will but he could. To me a gate keeper is someone who eliminates people who could fight for a title where I think with another couple of wins Nate could fight for a title. Now after that he could claim that status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    Those guys are UFC top 10 LW's, but not MMA top 10 LW's. And Maynard still in the top 10 shows how shallow the division is becoming.
    I did not have Cerrone as a top 10 when Nate pwned him. I might have had him top 20, but I've always thought Cerrone--like Guida and Diego--get overhyped because of a "busy" style that fans like.

    I had Miller solidly top 10 in the middle of 2012. He might have been softly ranked as high as 6, but he was 100% a solid ranking at top 10. Plus, factor in that his only losses were to guys who were luminaries in the sport and that he'd never been finished in his entire career. That was a huge, credible win.

    I had Maynard at #10 when they fought, and I don't think it's a soft ranking or a shallow pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    He isnt a great fighter, he will not hold UFC gold, and for that he is getting paid very well for what he is, a gatekepper.
    I'm not sure who the "he" you're referring to is, but I'll assume it's Diaz. Simply not becoming champion doesn't make you a gatekeeper. Nate actually is a great fighter. On any given night, he can beat any LW on the planet--that's what makes MMA great, it's got a ton of variables, and Nate is a fighter who can end a fight if his opponent makes a single mistake, standing, grappling, whatever.

    Certainly, he's a pain in the ass. He's uneducated, and comes off as an angry, spoiled brat without an ounce of respect. But he's a legitimate fighter, and is a very solid ranking around 7 or 8 right now.

    or, if you were referring to Maynard, I could see calling Gray a gatekeeper.




    I don't really understand how anyone who isn't in the industry, who isn't looking at actual numbers of revenue and buy rates feels qualified to state what a fighter should be making and what they shouldn't.

    What does Bisping make? Didn't he get a quarter-million to show against Mayhem?
    Should Nate get as much as Bisping? He's unquestionably more talented and has a bigger impact on his division than Pip has.


    rh
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    I think the term gatekeeper is FAR over used in general. People use the term to describe a guy who fights good fighters, but won't get enough wins strung together to ever get a title shot. The thing about that is that to even be in that position they have to be pretty good themselves, and be capable of putting together a few wins. That isn't to say the term shouldn't exist at all. Rich Franklin was a gate keeper at middleweight during Anderson reign. That's not a knock on him, just saying that he wasn't getting a 3rd fight with Silva. Bisping probably should get the label, but even he could eventually get over the hump, and win a fight that puts him into title contention. Sonnen was probably gonna be a gatekeeper at middleweight after the second fight, but he changed weight classes to avoid the situation entirely. The same is true of Edgar, even though, in my opinion, he beat Bendo (the second time for sure) and Aldo. To me to be a gate keeper, you would almost have to have had 2 fights against the current champ, and lost convincingly. I could be wrong on how others even view the term, but that's just how I personally view it.
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    If your not going to be a champion arent you forced into the gatekeeper role? I am being biased, I really don't like the Diaz brothers, for obvious and various reasons, I think they have spit in the face of the golden goose they have stumbled across.

    He fought for the title as a gimme for Hendo, I really do not see him ever making a legit run at the LW title with the course he is on now. I see him ending with a 50/50 record in the UFC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    I think the term gatekeeper is FAR over used in general. People use the term to describe a guy who fights good fighters, but won't get enough wins strung together to ever get a title shot. The thing about that is that to even be in that position they have to be pretty good themselves, and be capable of putting together a few wins. That isn't to say the term shouldn't exist at all. Rich Franklin was a gate keeper at middleweight during Anderson reign. That's not a knock on him, just saying that he wasn't getting a 3rd fight with Silva. Bisping probably should get the label, but even he could eventually get over the hump, and win a fight that puts him into title contention. Sonnen was probably gonna be a gatekeeper at middleweight after the second fight, but he changed weight classes to avoid the situation entirely. The same is true of Edgar, even though, in my opinion, he beat Bendo (the second time for sure) and Aldo. To me to be a gate keeper, you would almost have to have had 2 fights against the current champ, and lost convincingly. I could be wrong on how others even view the term, but that's just how I personally view it.
    Interesting. I'd always heard the term used about guys who were on the fringe of rankings and who wouldn't be headlining cards.

    I could see the logic with your definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by GL Jeff View Post
    If your not going to be a champion arent you forced into the gatekeeper role?
    see above.

    I am being biased, I really don't like the Diaz brothers, for obvious and various reasons, I think they have spit in the face of the golden goose they have stumbled across.
    I can understand being frustrated and annoyed by them, for sure.
    But I don't know that they "stumbled" across anything. Nick has been fighting longer than zuffa has been in existence. He was there first. He's made 10x more money for zuffa than zuffa has made for him. Both brothers see a disparity in pay scale, certainly when you look at talent vs. salary and they're ineffective in voicing their opinions. Interestingly, they remind me of posters who don't like the way the board is being run.

    He fought for the title as a gimme for Hendo, I really do not see him ever making a legit run at the LW title with the course he is on now. I see him ending with a 50/50 record in the UFC.
    I think it's all about their attitude. Both Diaz brothers are far more talented than say, Diego or Guida, but won't get they "aw man, those guys always bring it! Lookit their heart!" credit Sanchez and Clay get, because the Diaz brothers are unpleasant. Nate will face better fighters [and lose to some of them] as well, and could well end up with a 50/50 record...and that's if either of them ever fight again.

    I think it's interesting how zuffa really pushed for fighters to use social media [twitter bonuses, etc] but it has potential to generate bad press as well as good. Then again, I don't think zuffa brass cares, as they seem to subscribe to the myth that no publicity is bad publicity.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    Just on the gatekeeper definition, I always thought that a gatekeeper was a guy who could be relied upon to beat pretty much everyone except the elite talent in a division - if you beat him, you were ready for the step up to the big time. He might be a former champion or contender himself whose time had passed, or perhaps never managed to win that fight that would propel him into the big time.

    i didn't realise there were other definitions out there. You live and learn.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goremire View Post
    Just on the gatekeeper definition, I always thought that a gatekeeper was a guy who could be relied upon to beat pretty much everyone except the elite talent in a division - if you beat him, you were ready for the step up to the big time. He might be a former champion or contender himself whose time had passed, or perhaps never managed to win that fight that would propel him into the big time.

    i didn't realise there were other definitions out there. You live and learn.
    That's what I'd thought. I remember people getting PISSED when Franklin was referred to as a gatekeeper.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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