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Thread: Nate Diaz Complains & Dana White Responds

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    Fighters who are getting 6k/6k or 8k/8k aren't even underpaid. That is for one night. No one should get millions for one night, but some do. If you fight 4 times in a year, make 6k to show, and lose every fight, guess what? You still made 24k for 4 nights of work. Not enough to live? Good thing you have 361 other days that year to make more money.
    Saying that they only put in work for one night is incredibly ignorant. Even if you strip it down to the bare minimum, simplistically retarded point of view, most fighters at nate's level have to put in time throughout their camps with interviews, social events, press conferences, etc. to hype the fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    Now before I get destroyed by a dozen people saying "but, but, but training is a full time job!", does anybody pay you to be prepared to do your job at a successful level? No? Me neither.
    Umm.. a lot of jobs pay you to be prepared for your job. When you pay any event planners, you are paying them for the final product, but they cost so much because of the work it takes to get shit in order. You can't expect them to just show up on the day of and have any success at their job, just like you can't expect a fighter sit on his ass all year and actually perform come fight time. Teachers get paid for their time in the classroom, but most of their work goes into planning their lessons outside of it. The ufc is aware that they need to pay fighters for their preparation, or else they would still be hiring a bunch of tank abotts. I'm sure if you talked to Dana he would agree that he doesn't want a bunch of part time fighters doing this mma thing a few days out of the year, he wants full time dedicated athletes.
    Last edited by initial_zen; 04-10-2014 at 05:26 AM.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by initial_zen View Post
    Umm.. a lot of jobs pay you to be prepared for your job. When you pay any event planners, you are paying them for the final product, but they cost so much because of the work it takes to get shit in order. You can't expect them to just show up on the day of and have any success at their job, just like you can't expect a fighter sit on his ass all year and actually perform come fight time. Teachers get paid for their time in the classroom, but most of their work goes into planning their lessons outside of it. The ufc is aware that they need to pay fighters for their preparation, or else they would still be hiring a bunch of tank abotts. I'm sure if you talked to Dana he would agree that he doesn't want a bunch of part time fighters doing this mma thing a few days out of the year, he wants full time dedicated athletes.
    A lot of jobs especially for independent contractors (which is essentially what any fighter is) do not get paid for their prep time. They get paid for the job they are contracted to do which is show up on fight night and do the press obligations. As an independent contractor you have the right not to perform any job or sign any contract that you don't feel adequately pays you for the job at hand.

    Also to be honest I think Dana given the choice would be happy to have a bunch of Tank Abotts fighting in the UFC. He can pay them cheaply and the fight gets finished one way or another. But personally I think Dana is better suited running some tough man competitions in more regional areas

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by initial_zen View Post
    Saying that they only put in work for one night is incredibly ignorant. Even if you strip it down to the bare minimum, simplistically retarded point of view, most fighters at nate's level have to put in time throughout their camps with interviews, social events, press conferences, etc. to hype the fight.




    Umm.. a lot of jobs pay you to be prepared for your job. When you pay any event planners, you are paying them for the final product, but they cost so much because of the work it takes to get shit in order. You can't expect them to just show up on the day of and have any success at their job, just like you can't expect a fighter sit on his ass all year and actually perform come fight time. Teachers get paid for their time in the classroom, but most of their work goes into planning their lessons outside of it. The ufc is aware that they need to pay fighters for their preparation, or else they would still be hiring a bunch of tank abotts. I'm sure if you talked to Dana he would agree that he doesn't want a bunch of part time fighters doing this mma thing a few days out of the year, he wants full time dedicated athletes.
    I find it funny that you are trying to break down my point while proving my point. If you aren't well prepared for your job then you will lose your job. Most people's reward for being prepared is continued employment, not additional compensation. Are you really using teachers, widely considered the go to for an under paid profession, to defend that fighters should get paid more due to prep time? How much do you think teachers would get paid if prep time wasn't a factor in their salary?

    If Nate Diaz didn't train at all for his next fight, he'd still fight, and he'd still get his show money. He's established enough that he could probably show up twice, at least, in terrible shape, before getting cut. He'd get paid for all of those appearances, but he would eventually be cut, thus ending his employment. I work night shift, and by myself. I could legitimately get away with sleeping through my shift for a few months probably, and I wouldn't be fired after being caught once. Eventually though, it would bite me in the ass. Translation, by not showing up to work fully ready to be awake for my 12 hour shift, I would be unprepared for work. I wouldn't get paid to sleep more at home, before my shift, so I would be prepared, but I would eventually be fired for not being prepared. Once again, the reward for proper preparation isn't additional compensation, it's continued employment. Now granted, once a guy becomes vital to the success of a company, it would be wise for the company to take measures to make sure said employee is firing on all cylinders, but it is not owed to the employee.
    Last edited by The Donosaur; 04-10-2014 at 06:11 AM.
    NWO 4 Lyfe!!!


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fe1 View Post
    Probably 10th or 11th
    So in the 'best and most talented' mma organization in the world, Nate Diaz has less than ten guys who can beat him on any given night at LW.

    If I was one of the top ten guys in the entire world at any marketable skill, in which a major international sports organization worth an estimated 3 billion dollars was interested in me... I would be expect to earn more than Diaz does.
    And if you want beef, then bring the ruckus

  5. #45
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    To quote Nate himself...


    Diaz's main issue is the money he is being offered to fight. He stated that he considers it "chump change" and is far too embarrassed to accept that.
    Do you need the money or not. He signed the contract, suck it up, string together some impressive wins, Then renegotiate at the appropriate time.
    "They need to be about more money. My contract is all f*cked up. I want to be paid like these other fighters. I'm over here getting chump change. At this point, they're paying all my partners and other people I train with are getting real money, and it's too embarrassing for me to even fight again for the money they're paying me. So they can either pay me or let me go. I'm with that.
    What's embarrassing for him is finding out after he signed the contract that the others are making more money than him.
    The Stockton native also admitted to being "broke" and indebted to the IRS, which adds to his frustrating situation with the promotion.
    Sounds like he needs to either hire someone to help him manage his finances or fire the one who already is.
    "The crazy thing to me is that in what other professional sport do the cheerleaders make more than the athletes? I'm sure Arianny Celeste, Brittney Palmer, Joe Rogan, Bruce Buffer, probably you, everybody makes more money than I do. So I'm trying to make a move here. The way that the UFC makes me look, too, makes people I know believe that I'm some type of millionaire. I got a family to feed. I got my mom. She just got a brand new house and working two jobs still.
    First off, I wonder if he went around asking everyone "Yo, how much money you make? DAMN! Really???" And again HE signed the contract. Take ownership of it and quit bitching, or if he had an adviser tell him it was a good deal, fire his ass. FUCK!!! LOL Hey look at your moms, she's livin' in the real world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Dirten View Post
    The UFC doesn't pay fighters enough money.

    No IFS, ANDS, or BUTS.

    The company EASILY turns a MULTI million dollar profit every year.
    In fact, from the outside looking in... I would estimate that the UFC's actual net yearly profits at this point are in the HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.

    So guys making 60 grand to show and 60 grand to win is just ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Dirten View Post
    But that depends on how a person thinks profits should be split. For me... it's 50/50.
    Half of all profits (once everyone has been paid, all overhead paid, etc)... half of all PROFITS should go to the owners (That would be Lorenzo and Frank, Dana, and the Arab investor(s) who purchased 10% a few years back when the Fertittas needed to bail out their European casinos) and HALF should go to the fighters.
    Technically speaking, it's true, a lot of the fighters are under paid. Yes the UFC makes a shit ton of money, but in any business, the owners will almost always make more than the employees. 50/50 would be great, but mostly unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    Not bad money in your opinion? Your not a world class fighter, Nate Diaz is, so there's a slight difference there. He's won TUF, fought for the title, and is constantly beating top 10 fighters, and finishing a good amount of them. Your just some regular person that will probably never see 120k in a year, so of course you think that is some great amount of money to make in one night (not to mention he has to WIN or he gets half of that), but Nate Diaz and many other fighters have bigger dreams than you and have been working towards them for a long time.
    Are you one of the Diaz brothers posse? LOL I won't deny his accomplishments, but it's kind of shitty the way you say that most of us don't have big dreams. Is there something special about him that we don't know about? Who give a fuck if he's a pro athlete. If he has money problems, fix your lifestyle to suit your income. Us regular Joes have to do it everyday.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1inthechamber View Post
    20/20 sucks. 60/60 is not that bad considering he fights maybe 3-4 times a years thats anywhere from 240k - 480k (if he wins all fights).

    But I do agree mma fighters get paid shit compared every other sport.
    In those other sports they play anywhere from once a week to multiple times a week. That's not including training camps and daily practice. So technically speaking they SHOULD be paid more. IMO
    et noli esse incredulus sed fidelis
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  6. #46

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    I'm expected to keep up with continuing education hours to stay licensed. My job supports regular training, effectively paying me for prep time. It happens more than you'd think. There are a lot of places that pay interns or individuals in a co-op program.

    Don, you're free to have your opinion on this, but I couldn't disagree with it more: fighters aren't paid exclusively for fight night. Their contract encompasses behavior in and out of the cage; they're expected to be drug free, they're expected to be unrestricted by the judicial system, etc. Camps/Prep time is a factor, and I guarantee it's mentioned in the contract.

    I think Diaz is screwed, but I hope any other fighter who is being told they can renegotiate after a few good fights should think twice before signing anything for zuffa. I know from experience that paying an expert look over contracts seems like a waste of good money, but it's more like insurance. I think the legendary "backroom bonuses" that dana hands out just add to the problem.



    Quote Originally Posted by bingo View Post
    Do you need the money or not. He signed the contract, suck it up, string together some impressive wins, Then renegotiate at the appropriate time.
    The only concern is if he was actually told he could renegotiate at any time before signing. I don't think Nate is particularly bright, but I don't think he'd actually lie. dana? we've seen dana lie repeatedly.

    What's embarrassing for him is finding out after he signed the contract that the others are making more money than him.
    or he feels betrayed, in that he was told one thing, and now is being told another.

    Technically speaking, it's true, a lot of the fighters are under paid. Yes the UFC makes a shit ton of money, but in any business, the owners will almost always make more than the employees. 50/50 would be great, but mostly unrealistic.
    we're not even coming close to talking 50/50. We're talking about live gates that cover both production costs and fighter salaries...so all the PPV points are profit. I'd guess that's closer to 90/10.

    rh
    Last edited by rivethead; 04-10-2014 at 10:20 AM.
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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    wait....did you just say Genki Sudo unretired?

  7. #47
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    I really dont care if he was paid 600 to show and win, he signed the contract and has done nothing to improve his standing to warrant renegotiation. Its not like this was his first contract and got duped. He and his manager agreed on a number. Tough shit. Fight or quit.
    LJS-NEMS

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    Riv, you make good points that I can't really argue. You are taking a completely different approach to it than Mr. Diaz though. You are smart, prepared, and found the right help so that you were aware as to what you were getting yourself into, whereas Nate seems to have agreed to the deal, and then changed his mind when he didn't win the title.

    I had stated that it would be wise for a company to recognize their more valuable employees as assets, and do what they can to keep that employees work at a high level. I probably came on too strong because I have a big problem with guys like Diaz thinking the world owes them something. In reality, I don't have a problem with prep time being compensated. I just don't think it's owed, unless it's in the contract, which if it is in Nate's, he's still complaining about it either way. He either agreed to a contract that didn't cover his training camps, and such, or he agreed to a contract that covered his training, but still doesn't satisfy him. I hate to break my argument down to "he signed the contract so deal with it", as I was trying to avoid that, but I guess inevitably that's what it boils down to.
    NWO 4 Lyfe!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    The only concern is if he was actually told he could renegotiate at any time before signing. I don't think Nate is particularly bright, but I don't think he'd actually lie. dana? we've seen dana lie repeatedly.

    or he feels betrayed, in that he was told one thing, and now is being told another.

    rh
    LOL I agree with Nate probably not being very bright which could lead to him not understanding what he was signing. However, from the article that Cat posted there wasn't any reference to him being able to renegotiate other than when Nate said he'd fight Khabib Nurmagomedov only if they would redo his contract.
    Uncle Dana lie? Neva! LMFAO
    et noli esse incredulus sed fidelis
    "magic's just science we don't understand yet." Arthur C. Clarke.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    Riv, you make good points that I can't really argue. You are taking a completely different approach to it than Mr. Diaz though. You are smart, prepared, and found the right help so that you were aware as to what you were getting yourself into, whereas Nate seems to have agreed to the deal, and then changed his mind when he didn't win the title.
    I don't know that he changed his mind. He seems to have been misinformed.

    Whether that's from his snotrag of a manager--who should not only be fired, but should be laughed out of the industry--or from dana and/or zuffa people is certainly up in the air.

    I had stated that it would be wise for a company to recognize their more valuable employees as assets, and do what they can to He either agreed to a contract that didn't cover his training camps, and such, or he agreed to a contract that covered his training, but still doesn't satisfy him. I hate to break my argument down to "he signed the contract so deal with it", as I was trying to avoid that, but I guess inevitably that's what it boils down to.
    For me it boils down to the heavy handedness of the UFC contract. zuffa can cut fighters at any point--lose one out of 8, but some braindead internet zombies think you're boring? don't let the door hit your ass--but fighters don't have a leg to stand on when they want to go.

    And yes, I get it. They signed the contract. Just as I said about Burkman last week: keep your word. Honor your side of the contract, and then get the fuck out.

    But you can't convince me that zuffa isn't taking advantage of these guys--particularly the ones who aren't particularly bright to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by bingo View Post
    However, from the article that Cat posted there wasn't any reference to him being able to renegotiate other than when Nate said he'd fight Khabib Nurmagomedov only if they would redo his contract.
    from the original interview:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Diaz
    When I signed my last contract, they conned me into signing an eight-fight contract to fight [Benson] Henderson. I was negotiating my contract three weeks out from the fight. [My manager] Mike [Kogan] came in and got me a little bit of a raise -- a little -- they act like they hooked me up. They didn't do sh*t. They gave me a little something to shut me up for a minute. [They] got me to sign the contract, but the way they got me to sign the contract was like, Just trust me, sign the contract, and we can renegotiate anytime. I was like, I'll just fight a couple of fights and then talk some sh*t because I don't like this contract. So I'll renegotiate in a couple of fights because they told me I could do that.
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/4/8/...white-responds

    It's already been established that Kogan is a useless little shit, so I'm not going to assume anything here; beyond the fact that Nate is struggling with misinformation. Where he got that misinformation is up for debate, but I can understand being angry if he feels like he's been lied to...

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    wait....did you just say Genki Sudo unretired?

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