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Thread: Jones: 'No interest' in fighting Cain Velasquez

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    I'm not a Jones fan but to try and discredit his opponents to discredit him is not only disrespectful to Jon but to the guys he has fought.
    There are many paths to freedom....not all are peaceful.


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceCold48 View Post
    Liddell, Ortiz, Coutore, Rampage, Wand, Shogun, Rashad, Machida, Forrest, Hendo, Jardine, Matt Hamil, Brandon Vera, Michael Bisping, Bonnar, a young Jon Jones the list goes on. LHW used to be packed with very good fighters in the 2009ish era.
    I don't think anyone is denying that, or saying that it was anything but a very solid division when Jones won the title.

    But in the interest of accuracy, it was never "the deepest division" in the UFC.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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    wait....did you just say Genki Sudo unretired?

  3. #33

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    People are getting overly sensitive with Jon not having fought in the deepest division in the UFC. Jon Jones has beaten the best stretch of fighters in a one year span when he beat Shogun, Rampage, Machida and Evans. Although some disagree, in my opinion, he is the best LHW of all time. It's remarkable that he has done it in such a short time.

    However, I personally do not think he is the best p4p fighter and give it to Aldo, nor did I even consider LHW to be the deepest division ever. This isn't a knock at Jon Jones. It is what it is. LHW division was always a marquee division and generated some of the most significant PPV buys. It was deep, but when you compare it to the other divisions, it was never the deepest.

    Anderson Silva, who many consider to be the best fighter of all time (not me personally, but that's not the point of the conversation) fought in one of the weaker divisions in UFC. It's kind of funny that the division has now become much stronger in the last year but that's what happens as time goes on. Some divisions gets weaker, some divisions get stronger.

  4. #34
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    I think the reason the LHW division was the marquee division was because it had the most balance in it's depth. I'll explain what I mean by that by comparing it to other divisons.

    MW had a dominant champion but was for a long time clearly the shallowest division. People were mainly interested in watching an Anderson Silva highlight reel, and that was about it for the division. Non title fights, even between top contenders (Okami) sometimes didn't even make it to the main card. Conclusion: too shalow for marquee.

    LW was often a close second or sometimes considered the deepest division. Guys like Jim Miller, Georges Sotiropoulos, or Roger Huerta could go on massive winning streaks and still not get that close to a title shot. On any given night a top five fighter could lose to a top 15 fighter and it just seemed like there was not a huge gap in talent between top 10 guys and the ones just outside. If anything, there was TOO much depth for it to become a marquee division (possibly also because of size discrimination), because there was never an entrenched top 5 or top 10. Title fights often had to be supported by a big co-main (UFC 101 with Anderson Silva) of not even be the main event at all (UFC 112 again with Anderson). Conclusion: too deep for marquee.

    LHW compared to these other two fit right in the middle. You had a very solid top 10, and then usually a pretty big drop off after the top 12 or so. Guys would remain in the top 10 for years on end; Chuck, Tito, Randy, Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Henderson were top 10 in 2001! Exciting fights and fighting styles, marketable personalities, and favourable size bias played a big part of course, but the fact that all these fighters (plus Couture circa 2003) stayed in the top 10 for so long allowed casual fans to stay familiar with them. It also meant that any LHW fight between top contenders was a major draw (I'm not even going to bother with examples). It also helped that there was a solid mix of dominance (Chuck, and now Jones) and well as periods where the belt would change hands several times in a year. Conclusion: perfect balance for marquee.

    Now this is where the confusion occurs. You could argue that LHW had the most stacked division, because perhaps it had the strongest top 10. That would be tough to judge, but that is why Jones gets so much credit for his initial title run.
    Calling it the deepest division though is just innacurate. It may seem like semantics, like when people call any win domination, or use the term rag-dolled to describe a few takedowns. Maybe you don't care to make a differentiation between these things.

    Some of us are more literal and for us these words actually describe completely different situations. That is why calling the LHW division the deepest just smacks us in the face as somethig that makes no sense to say. However, pointing out that innacuracy should not be confused with criticizing Jones.
    If you walk past a beautiful piece of art that is hanging crookedly, and straighten it out, you're just setting things right, not making a negative judgement on the art itself.
    Last edited by SWIFTboy; 04-25-2014 at 10:36 AM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWIFTboy View Post
    If you walk past a beautiful piece of art that is hanging crookedly, and straighten it out, you're just setting things right, not making a negative judgement on the art itself.
    ...but there is always someone ready to call you a hater for leveling that canvas.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    wait....did you just say Genki Sudo unretired?

  6. #36
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    Dana White: Jones won't fight at light heavyweight forever, but now not time for superfights
    “Right now, Cain Velasquez has to fight (Fabricio) Werdum,” said White, referring to the headliner between the champ and contender that headlines UFC 180 in Mexico City. “Jon Jones has (Alexander) Gustafsson, possibly (Daniel) Cormier if he wins that fight (against Dan Henderson) – he’s got a lot of guys lined up still.

    “The other thing is, Jon Jones is 26 years old. As he continues to get older, he will have a harder and harder time making 205 (pounds), which would eventually probably force him up to heavyweight. It’s not the time for a Cain versus Jon Jones superfight.”

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    At this point from what I've seen, Rumble would be a better fight than him vs Phil Davis. Gustaffson takes the rematch regardless, shoulda had the first one in my opinion of that match

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I don't think anyone is denying that, or saying that it was anything but a very solid division when Jones won the title.

    But in the interest of accuracy, it was never "the deepest division" in the UFC.

    rh
    What weight class was deeper at that time? Regardless the argument the other posters were making was that it was considered at the time the deepest. Maybe in retrospect it wasn't(which is still debateable) but at the time it was considered by many to be the deepest.
    Last edited by IceCold48; 04-30-2014 at 05:04 PM.

  9. #39
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    WW has always been pretty deep.

    GSP, Condit, Fitch, Shields, Alves, Koscheck, Kampmann were all in the UFC and at or around their primes when Jones' reign over LHW first started taking place. Plus guys like Hendricks/Rory were gaining momentum quickly. Both divisions, along with LW, have always had a solid host of mid tier fighters as well.

    I do think the two were close in comparison...but Shogun and Rampage were easily past their primes when Jones fought them. Slight edge goes to WW in my opinion. LW and LHW were pretty dead even, I think...
    Last edited by dbader08; 04-30-2014 at 05:14 PM.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbader08 View Post
    WW has always been pretty deep.

    GSP, Condit, Fitch, Shields, Alves, Koscheck, Kampmann were all in the UFC and at or around their primes when Jones' reign over LHW first started taking place.

    I do think the two were close in comparison...but Shogun and Rampage were easily past their primes when Jones fought them.
    Sheilds wasn't in the UFC at the time. Condiit had just switched over from WEC.

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