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Thread: The hard sell: Renan Barao is the world's best fighter

  1. #11
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    While we all know Dana is an idiot, this article is horrible biased and unprofessional. They are making it out as if Barao should not be in the pound for pound discussion at all which is stupid. I for one agree with Dana that as of right now, Barao is probably the best on the planet.
    "DO YOU THINK I'M JUST GOING TO SIT THERE AND LET YOU KILL ME JON???"

  2. #12
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    Fowlkes has been a clown since he was at cagepotato. Probably before that, even; but that's when he popped up on my radar.

    It's actually nice to see dana bringing actual skills into a p4p discussion, even if he's 8 years late to the party.

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Silva>C.Norris View Post
    For the record, I still hold Aldo above Barao in weight-free rankings.
    agreed with all of your post, but this more than anything. But the two of them are pretty far out ahead of anyone fighting today.

    rh
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  3. #13

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    A fighter that has been facing the elite of his division since 2009 including the former champion (Edgar) and #1 contender (Florian) at a higher weight class is the best p4p period. Barao is one of the best, but Aldo is currently ahead of all fighters.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.Silva>C.Norris View Post
    Barao's low level of fan support is EXACTLY what you get when you cater to "casual fans". WWE's numbers are dwindling, and the UFC has a boom in the popular fighters with more quotes then wins. Coincidence? Instead of selling skill, they keep sticking microphones in front of Diaz. The fact that the more talented, less quotable fighters arent "marketable" should come as a suprise to no one.

    Also, its as much the fault of the media as it is the Zuffa marketing juggernaut. How many Diaz articles have their been since he took his ball and went home? Sonnen, who is a mediocre fighter, has reporters lining up to do an interview, and nobody even recognizes Jose Aldo... Probably an over-statement, but not drastically.

    Selling fights kills the sport, in my opinion.


    For the record, I still hold Aldo above Barao in weight-free rankings.

    While I think marketing and hype play a big part of it... Size plays a big part in as well a casual fan is way less likely to buy into Barao being the best when he looks so small compared to a LHW or HW. A lot of people go with size as being the important factor when it comes to how good a fighter is.

    The lower weight classes will never get the same recognition. Even the hardcore fans skip over a guy like Mighty Mouse when it comes to p4p talk.


  5. #16
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    2 things:

    1) I believe that Frankie Edgar is right there with them, and I think Mendes is up there too. Way too many pound for pound lists are just a list of champions. The UFC had/has Rousey on their list. Who here thinks Rousey beats any 135 pound male UFC fighter, much less deserves to be ranked pound for pound? Fitch also never got a fair shake in those discussions, when he was in his prime.

    2) I was asking a buddy, the other day, if he was in if I ordered it. He asked who was fighting, I said Barao was fighting Dillashaw, and he said he had no idea who either of those people are. We had talked MMA for about 10 minutes before that. He freaking knew who King Mo was, but had never heard of Barao. I would even go out on a limb, and say that Dillashaw is the best known guy in the main event due to TUF.
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  6. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    Dana blocked me for tweeting "Long Live Bellator!" when the UFC released Fitch.
    I'm surprised Dana hasn't blocked me. He called me an idiot once when I tweeted him about protecting Rousey from Cyborg. That was pretty entertaining lol.

    I think Renan is the #1 pound for pound fighter, though. I think he's looked extremely fucking good his last few fights. He had kind of an off night vs Jorgensen but since then he's taken people to school with ease.

    I hope this isn't too big, because it's awesome.

  7. #18
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    I have my definition of P4P, but I also like Aldo's criteria. Aldo says that the best P4P is the one who can beat everyone else.... so to him, Cain Velasquez is the P4P best. I used to think that P4P meant skill for skill regardless of weight, but after hearing what Aldo had to say, I have to agree with his definition. Also, I'm not exactly sure who said it (I believe it was Frank Mir), but the P4P discussion was just made up to make the smaller weight classes feel better.

    On a random thought....
    When people have their debates about who is the P4P best.... could there be a subliminal question that would answer that? I was thinking for example.... If there was just one fighter you could pick to represent the world to face someone else from another planet, who would that fighter be? Maybe that could be a secret way of asking someone who they really think the best P4P fighter is. If I had to choose, I would pick Cain. So by default, I think he's the P4P best.

    I know that isn't a realistic situation, I just thought it would be fun to see who everyone else would be comfortable with to represent the world.
    Last edited by rahdeezy; 05-22-2014 at 01:24 AM.

  8. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rahdeezy View Post
    I have my definition of P4P, but I also like Aldo's criteria. Aldo says that the best P4P is the one who can beat everyone else.... so to him, Cain Velasquez is the P4P best. I used to think that P4P meant skill for skill regardless of weight, but after hearing what Aldo had to say, I have to agree with his definition. Also, I'm not exactly sure who said it (I believe it was Frank Mir), but the P4P discussion was just made up to make the smaller weight classes feel better.

    On a random thought....
    When people have their debates about who is the P4P best.... could there be a subliminal question that would answer that? I was thinking for example.... If there was just one fighter you could pick to represent the world to face someone else from another planet, who would that fighter be? Maybe that could be a secret way of asking someone who they really think the best P4P fighter is. If I had to choose, I would pick Cain. So by default, I think he's the P4P best.

    I know that isn't a realistic situation, I just thought it would be fun to see who everyone else would be comfortable with to represent the world.
    How big would the champion for this other planet be? If our guy's size has no bearing on their guy's size then I'm picking Cain. If they are only going to match the size of our guy, and no bigger, then I'm probably picking Frankie (feel free to replace him with Aldo or Barao if you wish) in a fight to the death.

    I have said many times that pound for pound is dumb, because taking size out of it isn't as simple as people make it seem. If you small down Cain then he loses power. If you big up Frankie then he loses speed. Wanna have them meet in the middle, then both of their skill sets change accordingly. Most skills are dependent/greatly affected by the physical gifts that the fighter has. Let's say we got the magic pound for pound Mega-Ray that balances out size advantages, and let's put Bones against prime BJ. How does that go? Do they fight at 205? How does that affect BJ's BJJ? I mean he is gonna be longer, does he have an easier or harder time locking up subs? Is he magically comfortable with his new body or not? Is he stronger? How much stronger? How much slower? How does it affect his cardio? How does it affect his chin? What about his take down defense? Striking? What if they fight at 155? Does Bones still have his crazy reach? If not, does he lose reach, but still have a proportional reach advantage? What about his strength, speed, takedowns, striking, cardio, and a million other things? Wanna do this at like 180? ALL of those questions, only to a slightly lesser degree on each and every one of them. By the end of this shit, we aren't even talking about the same guys anymore. Their size is part of who they are as a fighter. At the end of it, we are just arguing over which discipline is better.

    If anybody has any input on my pound for pound rant, then please speak up. I have made these points before, and never get much of a response. To me, it is a huge gaping hole in the theory of pound for pound debates, so please let me know what you think.
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  9. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rahdeezy View Post
    I have my definition of P4P, but I also like Aldo's criteria. Aldo says that the best P4P is the one who can beat everyone else.... so to him, Cain Velasquez is the P4P best. I used to think that P4P meant skill for skill regardless of weight, but after hearing what Aldo had to say, I have to agree with his definition. Also, I'm not exactly sure who said it (I believe it was Frank Mir), but the P4P discussion was just made up to make the smaller weight classes feel better.
    His definition is just the best fighter, why even call that pound for pound? That doesn't represent what p4p means.



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