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Thread: Breaking: Vitor Belfort Replaces Wanderlei Silva, Meets Chael Sonnen At UFC 175

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    If someone already said something to this effect, I apologize, but why wouldn't Chael deserve a title shot if he beats Vitor? Didn't Vitor pretty much just clear out the division? Aside from his loss in the second bout to Anderson, who at middleweight has Chael lost to? He dominated Anderson for 4.5 rounds the first match, then he dominated Brian Stann, then he beat Michael Bisping. He had no business fighting Jones, then he dominated Shogun, then lost to Evans. Whether you believe he had colon surgery less than 48 hours before the fight or not, he definitely looked WAY out of it in that fight, and he looked very small in the octagon on that night.

    There's no doubt he would beat Mark Munoz, Tim Kennedy, or Luke Rockhold. So who else even makes sense? Cung Le? Mousasi? Who of significance in the UFC has Souza beat? Chael vs Vitor for #1 spot makes the most sense.

    I think Vitor vs Chael is 100 times better than Wanderlei, I think Weidman vs Machida is a great fight, and I think Chael vs Weidman and Vitor vs Machida are great followup fights.
    pretty much spot on how I feel about the entire thing
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  2. #62
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    I like Chael, but I don't like the idea of him leapfrogging people just because he would probably beat them. Just because he would almost certainly beat the Rockholds of the world, doesn't mean he shouldn't have to face them.

    Riv, I know that everyone involved is capable of theatrics, but that's a ton of unnecessary shit to actually get to this point. Why have this big long rivalry that has even included a season of TUF, only to scrap it for a less anticipated fight? Why would anyone let the company take a shit on their legacy the way Wanderlei has, if this is a work? The only end game that would make a shred of sense, and be a work, is wanting to fast track Sonnen to a title fight. Once again though, if that's the case, why would Wanderlei allow himself to be the scapegoat on all of this? Even if he was willing to be the fall guy, why not something that didn't tarnish his career, like an injury?
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    I like Chael, but I don't like the idea of him leapfrogging people just because he would probably beat them. Just because he would almost certainly beat the Rockholds of the world, doesn't mean he shouldn't have to face them.

    Riv, I know that everyone involved is capable of theatrics, but that's a ton of unnecessary shit to actually get to this point. Why have this big long rivalry that has even included a season of TUF, only to scrap it for a less anticipated fight? Why would anyone let the company take a shit on their legacy the way Wanderlei has, if this is a work? The only end game that would make a shred of sense, and be a work, is wanting to fast track Sonnen to a title fight. Once again though, if that's the case, why would Wanderlei allow himself to be the scapegoat on all of this? Even if he was willing to be the fall guy, why not something that didn't tarnish his career, like an injury?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    If someone already said something to this effect, I apologize, but why wouldn't Chael deserve a title shot if he beats Vitor? Didn't Vitor pretty much just clear out the division? Aside from his loss in the second bout to Anderson, who at middleweight has Chael lost to? He dominated Anderson for 4.5 rounds the first match, then he dominated Brian Stann, then he beat Michael Bisping. He had no business fighting Jones, then he dominated Shogun, then lost to Evans. Whether you believe he had colon surgery less than 48 hours before the fight or not, he definitely looked WAY out of it in that fight, and he looked very small in the octagon on that night.
    Similar to Dono, my issue is that you still should earn a title fight. Sonnen hasn't fought at MW in two years and is coming off a loss to Evans. Maybe he'd beat the guys you mentioned, maybe he wouldn't. But he needs to prove it by beating folks like Vitor, Rockhold, Jacare, etc. And one win shouldn't get you into a title shot. More importantly, you shouldn't get a #1 contender fight in a competitive division coming off a loss in a different division and having not fought in the original division in two years. That's just silly. Maybe. Maybe you could justify that treatment to someone who was a dominant figure for years. But Sonnen was not. He needs multiple wins in a row at the division in which he wants to challenge for the belt.

    That said, I don't believe he'll get a title shot with one win. It was cute the first time it happened with Jones, but at least there was a story and people turning down the title fight. But if it happens again, forcing guys like Jacare into waiting, it'll be a total joke. I think DW knows there's a limit to the crap you can pull; and that there isn't a compelling story to sell for Sonnen who won't antagonize Weidman "The All American" too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    meh.

    I'm really tired of the drama in zuffa. I think this is just as likely to be a work as anything else. I literally distrust every one of the principle players in the story. Every. Single. One.

    I don't think wandi is afraid of fighting or losing. I do think he smokes weed, and that's as likely as not to get him fined and suspended.
    All of this seems off to me. I think calling this overplayed, complicated farce a work is waaay to Machiavellian for real life. It's a neat story, but it's too neat. Far more likely that something happened, the UFC needed a replacement, and Vitor was one of the few that both sells and is available. Particularly with the history between Chael and Vitor.

    If Wandy was worried about pissing hot for weed, then I don't think it explains him not applying for a license. My understanding is that he could have sweated it out (a la Nick Diaz) in two weeks or less, which should have been achievable with simply a delay. I'd be he could have easily explained that to the UFC and gotten blessing on a delayed application. But he didn't apply for a license and acted surprised that his fight was canceled. Jumping to some kind of explanation of this being his reasonable indulgence in a drug most approve of just isn't congruent with what we're hearing.

    Who knows why Wandy didn't apply. But I don't see any evidence that makes a weed reference justified; except that it's an easy excuse that many fans would approve of.

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    How does Jacare deserve a title shot? Munoz, Kennedy, Rockhold, Souza, and Mousasi need to battle it out to see which one of them emerges and makes sense to be a contender. Right now any of them would be a crapshoot. Chael at middleweight is a force to be reckoned with, whether you like his fighting style or not. Chael at LHW is a distraction and probably a move he made because he saw no light at the end of the tunnel prior to Anderson getting beat by Weidman.

    In my eyes Vitor is #1, Machida #2, Anderson #3, and Chael #4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    How does Jacare deserve a title shot? Munoz, Kennedy, Rockhold, Souza, and Mousasi need to battle it out to see which one of them emerges and makes sense to be a contender. Right now any of them would be a crapshoot. Chael at middleweight is a force to be reckoned with, whether you like his fighting style or not. Chael at LHW is a distraction and probably a move he made because he saw no light at the end of the tunnel prior to Anderson getting beat by Weidman.

    In my eyes Vitor is #1, Machida #2, Anderson #3, and Chael #4.
    How is chael ahead of guys like Souza, Kennedy and Rockhold. He has 2 wins in MW division in the last 4 years, the last win being over 2 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    How does Jacare deserve a title shot? Munoz, Kennedy, Rockhold, Souza, and Mousasi need to battle it out to see which one of them emerges and makes sense to be a contender. Right now any of them would be a crapshoot. Chael at middleweight is a force to be reckoned with, whether you like his fighting style or not. Chael at LHW is a distraction and probably a move he made because he saw no light at the end of the tunnel prior to Anderson getting beat by Weidman.

    In my eyes Vitor is #1, Machida #2, Anderson #3, and Chael #4.
    Sonnen hasn't fought at MW in almost two years, hasn't won at middle weight in over 2 years. Thats a pretty good reason for him not to get placed directly into a #1 contender fight.

    By the way, Souza beat..sorry...knocked out Yushin Okami who was ranked top 5 at that time. Sonnen's last win at MW was Bisping who was softly ranked around the 8-10 range at the time. And Bisping is the highest ranked fighter Sonnen has beaten at MW since....2010?

    So to say Sonnen deserves a crack at the title before Souza is...wrong. Just wrong man.
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    There's no doubt he would beat Mark Munoz, Tim Kennedy, or Luke Rockhold. So who else even makes sense? Cung Le? Mousasi? Who of significance in the UFC has Souza beat? Chael vs Vitor for #1 spot makes the most sense.
    Huh?

    How is there no doubt he'd beat Munoz, Kennedy or Rockhold?

    I'm pretty secure in saying Kennedy would give him fits. I'm not positive on where Munoz is mentally and physically but his style could very well give Chael problems too. Rockhold lost to Vitor on a crazy kick and then promptly finished two VERY solid fighters inside of the first round.

    Making statements like that seems a bit ridiculous to me.
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    I didn't even mention Rockhold, but I think he beats Sonnen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    If someone already said something to this effect, I apologize, but why wouldn't Chael deserve a title shot if he beats Vitor?
    a) because he hasn't beaten a MW of note in years.
    b) because there is doubt as to Vitor's validity of an opponent post TRT
    c) because there is tremendous doubt--from objective fans--as to whether he'd beat Munoz, Kennedy or especially Rockhold
    d) but more importantly, they've been fighting in the division and winning. He hasn't done either of those things in a long time.

    I could go on, but it's a pointless exercise. You either see that sonnen should be nowhere near a title shot in an objective world, or you're a big enough fan where you're willing to bend reality so that your boy gets a gimme.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Donosaur View Post
    Riv, I know that everyone involved is capable of theatrics, but that's a ton of unnecessary shit to actually get to this point. Why have this big long rivalry that has even included a season of TUF, only to scrap it for a less anticipated fight?
    I don't think the whole thing was a work.
    I think it was a contingency plan.

    There has been doubt that Wandi would be healthy enough to fight from the beginning. I believe people were working on spin from the very beginning. I think it's likely he was juicing, or more likely that he was smoking, and the random test opened the door for the contingency plan.

    So I don't think it was a work from the beginning, but I do not believe the validity of anything that has been written about it since the story broke.

    As far as Wandi letting people shit on his legacy, he's not in a position to argue...and we haven't heard his side of the story yet, either. It would be unsurprising if the spin doctors at zuffa have something just plausible enough to mollify die-hard Wandi fans, incense sonnen fans, and keep the controversy ball rolling enough to get the UFC in people's mouth.

    It's become increasingly difficult to be a UFC fan.
    I find professional wrestling to be pathetic, and zuffa has adopted more and more of it's theatrics in an effort to chase that billion dollar empire dream. I get the capitalist side of it, but as a fan, it's hard to see the sport--and I'm using that term specifically, because sports-entertainment is a whore--utterly trashed in the process. IF you weren't a fan back before the melodrama, you wouldn't know any difference.

    If you've never seen anything but whores, whores look hot, and their sales pitch can somehow sound attractive.

    But if you knew them before they went tricking, it's pathetic, and difficult to watch.

    rh
    Last edited by rivethead; 05-30-2014 at 06:24 PM. Reason: formatting
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