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Thread: Longo: Weidman will crush weak chinned Machida

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallas View Post
    I'm not saying Silva threw the knee to the face, it wasn't intentional, he threw it to the sternum, but it did rise to the face. If that IS legal, then disregard my illegal comment, but I thought the knee can't hit the face.
    It was ruled that the thigh hit his face, the knee connected square in the sternum.

    Going by the first fight and the way things were going in the second fight prior to the spinning backfist, Chael wins 7 of 10.
    Well, you're welcome to your opinion.

    I've never bought into the "Silva's rib was broken before he fought sonnen" myth; but I do think he was injured with a tender rib. I think sonnen's first takedown cracked the rib, and set up the scene for the rest of that fight. But if you watch that fight, there are at least 4 instances where sonnen was setting himself up for a triangle because he still ground fights like a wrestler and his default is tripod up instead of surrendering base, as someone from a stronger BJJ background would do. His submission defense has always been dreadful--and I'm not exaggerating when I say that. So even though he's shown a little improvement later in his career, I believe there is a strong likelihood that he'd get submitted if he sticks to his typical routine. His ground and pound has never been strong enough to account for a likely finish, so I don't ever see a repeat of that first fight happening.

    Not to mention, he was juiced to the gills in the first fight. It wasn't TRT, it was TRT abuse. He admitted to that when he was questioned about his dosages in the AC hearing, even though nothing came of that. His more recent issues raise the specter that he was potentially abusing during the second fight [and maybe actually cycling on/off] as well. Obviously, nothing can ever be proven there, but minimally, you have to admit that there is at least as much doubt as to his status as there is with AO and Vitor. So I don't really know that his previous performances can be said to be a good foundation, even for the always-flawed MMA math.

    But you're definitely welcome to believe whatever you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceCold48 View Post
    Then I am assuming you are one of those who watches fights on mute because I'm pretty sure Goldberg has said it in every single Weidman fight that he beat Davis and Bader in college haha.
    That's funny, I'd never heard it before...but I've been muting for the better part of 10 years now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goremire View Post
    Weidman does not have raw speed that is true. What he does possess is very good footwork and feints himself, and he throws combinations intelligently. And of course he is also a very strong submission grappler/ground 'n' pounder.

    These strengths more so than speed I think will play a factor if Weidman beats Machida - after all, it's not like Shogun, Rampage or Davis were lightning quick when they beat him so it's not a prerequisite (although prime Shogun is definitely faster than Weidman).
    Going into the Silva bout, I didn't think Weidman had the speed to beat Anderson, either. But he trains to specifically make up for that, as you'd indicated.

    I'm really very excited about this bout. I think Machida is actually a more dangerous matchup for Chris than Anderson was.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goremire View Post
    I think Weidman has the skill necessary to back Machida against the fence and throw combos (where he looked ordinary against Rampage and even Mousasi at times) or enter into a clinch for takedowns without exposing himself unduly to counter fire. I think he's savvy enough to draw Machida's left body kick and time it for a takedown. I don't think he'll charge onto a counter left hand like Bader did, because he's far too defensively sound for that. I don't think we'll see him charge across the Octagon to punt Machida's lead leg when he backs up a la Shogun either, but you never know.

    Weidman has the tools based on his body of work so far, no doubt about it. Putting it together when it counts is another matter. Machida is incredibly skilled and no easy out for anyone south of heavyweight. That's why I'm so amped for this one
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Going into the Silva bout, I didn't think Weidman had the speed to beat Anderson, either. But he trains to specifically make up for that, as you'd indicated.

    I'm really very excited about this bout. I think Machida is actually a more dangerous matchup for Chris than Anderson was.

    rh
    Totally agreed with the oppty to make up for the speed disadvantage and the excitement for the fight. Because the speed discrepency is so high, I think this is Weidman's toughest test of the MW division's near future. But I'm assuming Longo is working on angles, cutting off the cage, and more being more methodical with how Chris gets into boxing and grappling range.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Not to mention, he was juiced to the gills in the first fight. It wasn't TRT, it was TRT abuse. He admitted to that when he was questioned about his dosages in the AC hearing, even though nothing came of that. His more recent issues raise the specter that he was potentially abusing during the second fight [and maybe actually cycling on/off] as well. Obviously, nothing can ever be proven there, but minimally, you have to admit that there is at least as much doubt as to his status as there is with AO and Vitor. So I don't really know that his previous performances can be said to be a good foundation, even for the always-flawed MMA math.
    I don't know much about these drugs. The story from Sonnen is that the drugs aren't performance enhancing and not ones associated with masking. But he obviously has reasons to not be truthful. Are the things he most recently popped for associated with juicing?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorPunch View Post
    I don't know much about these drugs. The story from Sonnen is that the drugs aren't performance enhancing and not ones associated with masking. But he obviously has reasons to not be truthful. Are the things he most recently popped for associated with juicing?
    Just like with Vitor, there is plausible deniability--at least, far more than there was in sonnen's first failure. The drugs may be therapeutic withdrawal from TRT, it's within the realm of reason. But they're also used by some steroid abusers at the tail end of a cycle, so there is doubt.

    If sonnen were to be viewed with the same vindictive scrutiny Vitor has, the additional muscle-mass he's put on in the last 2 years would be simply be written off as "proof" that he's juicing. Guys over 35 don't commonly gain 25lbs of muscle that quickly, and cycling [full-on use, as opposed to staying within the guidelines of TRT] could certainly explain that.

    But there is doubt, either way.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    I don't know much about these drugs. The story from Sonnen is that the drugs aren't performance enhancing and not ones associated with masking. But he obviously has reasons to not be truthful. Are the things he most recently popped for associated with juicing?
    Yes. They are by far the most common form of Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) used by informed steroid users. Any Google search of HCG, Nolvadex, Arimidex, and Clomid should return hundreds of links to bodybuilding and steroid forums.
    You say shark I say hey man, Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Just like with Vitor, there is plausible deniability--at least, far more than there was in sonnen's first failure. The drugs may be therapeutic withdrawal from TRT, it's within the realm of reason. But they're also used by some steroid abusers at the tail end of a cycle, so there is doubt.

    If sonnen were to be viewed with the same vindictive scrutiny Vitor has, the additional muscle-mass he's put on in the last 2 years would be simply be written off as "proof" that he's juicing. Guys over 35 don't commonly gain 25lbs of muscle that quickly, and cycling [full-on use, as opposed to staying within the guidelines of TRT] could certainly explain that.

    But there is doubt, either way.

    rh
    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    Yes. They are by far the most common form of Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) used by informed steroid users. Any Google search of HCG, Nolvadex, Arimidex, and Clomid should return hundreds of links to bodybuilding and steroid forums.

    Thanks, learned something new. That, frankly, I hope I never use

    As far as Sonnen v. Vitor, I think part of the story is also physical appearance. Vitor looked more Hulk-like in his muscle mass and definition. It's not an accurate way to assess these things, but I think it certainly influences popular opinion.

  6. #46
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    For every Phil Baroni, there is a Tim Sylvia and a Josh Barnett.

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    Sure, there is doubt on what Sonnen may or may not have been using in previous fights, but it's his technique that has proven to be very effective against Silva. Is he as effective without cycling testosterone? Perhaps his speed, strength, and endurance take a small hit, but the technique remains the same.

    It would have been very easy for everyone to say the first fight was a fluke if Sonnen bombed in #2, and most media and some people here do say that, but when you really watch that fight, he was dominating again. The fluke isn't Sonnen's technique being dominant, the fluke was the spinning back fist and falling to the mat.

  8. #48
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    I think we're going to end up disagreeing on very specific language. When I look at either fight, the word "domination" doesn't fit, for either fighter.

    This specific debate came out of the term "with relative ease," so I'll look back to that.

    I felt the first fight was as good as it's ever going to get with sonnen. I certainly wouldn't say he "dominated," but won 4 rounds convincingly.

    I felt Anderson beat sonnen in the second bout with relative ease. Yes, he lost the first round. No significant damage was done, and sonnen still showed weakness in his top game, offering up that arm as he popped into tripod to drop ineffective ground and pound. That's anything but dominant. In the second round, he got stuffed, and then lit up when he foolishly threw the backfist.

    I felt Silva made it look "relatively easy." Sure, Silva didn't dominate, but he never looked in trouble. he was taken down about half the time, but he could weather whatever sonnen was throwing, and simply wait to exploit the weakness of sonnen's submission defense. The glaring hole was there, and UFC-era Silva has always been good enough to capitalize on it. And he'd probably be able to do it again. And again. Thus, I felt "with relative ease" fit.

    But you're certainly welcome to your opinion and perception, and to your personal definition of the terms "with relative ease" and "dominant."

    rh
    All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
    The Rum Diary

    Yeah, Bye.

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    One thing that always baffles me is how much Silva's blatant shorts-grab in the 2nd fight is ignored or downplayed. Ive re-watched that fight twice, and every time I feel that foul had a very real impact on the outcome of that fight. It kept sonnen in range, and prevented him from backing up and resetting for his next exchange.

    Having said that, I completely expected Silva to win the 2nd fight, in even more convincing fashion then he did.

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    I think I could make a thread labeled "I just farted" and it would some how end up in an argument regarding Jon Jones sand Chael Sonnen.

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