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Thread: Escaping the money trap

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin
    Before I finish on this subject I'd like to mention Matt Lindland.

    Matt Lindland was booked to fight at Cage Rage 16 & they advertised the fight with him being once a top contender at UFC an-all. His match was a big selling point with Cage Rage (a growing promotion). However a few weeks prior to fight night he bailed on them cos he got offered a better deal fighting in the US.

    I can't blame him from doing it cos he's got mouths to feed, but as Cage Rage used to sign up fights based on the honour of the fighters word they didn't have a leg to stand on. Now the are introducing legal contracts for their fighters.

    Anderson Silva was another of their fighters & was their World MW title holder. He has now signed to the UFC leaving them without one of their most exciting fightes & biggest draws.

    So with that said you can kind of understand why promoters use legal contracts to keep their assets (fighters) in house. It gives them & their fans a little bit more security.
    This post got me thinking a little. My knee-jerk response was ‘who cares about the promoters?!? Of course they want long term contracts, but they’ll be fine - it’s the fighters and fans that matter most!’ However, I quickly realized that you make a point that deserves far more consideration:

    “[Promoters use legal contracts to give] them & their fans a little bit more security.”

    I think there are several types of fan, with two types being relevant here: Local and Global (I’m only talking about real fans, not the beer swilling blood lust crews btw).

    --- Global is fairly self explanatory - they are the fans who are knowledgeable about the worldwide MMA scene and care to see the best fights regardless of the promotion or location. Most fans that frequent forums such as this are global fans even if they have a strong preference for one promotion or region.

    --- Local would be fans that are mostly passionate for a portion of MMA (such as the UK scene, or a single promotion like UFC). IMO, many local fans simply aren’t well educated in MMA (eg fans who feel UFC is –the- promotion for MMA). Most of these fans will become global soon enough through the ‘schooling’ of other fans. Some local fans, however, are well connected to their scene (such as the UK) through having friends who compete there or who assist in the promotions. These fans may currently, and in the near future, have little interest in the global scene.

    NPO style single fight contracts would, as you suggest, cause quicker and more regular migration of the best local fighters. This, as we’ve already established, would be much better for the fighter, who can now earn better money and win new fans without having to see out an unfavourable long contract against weak opposition. There is no doubt it would also be much better for the global fans, so we are left with only the effect it has on the local fans….

    The migration of fighters would assist in the ‘globalization’ of single-promotion local fans. Take a UFC fan for example – and let’s say Anderson Silva takes Franklins belt. UFC fan could then become interested in where this badass came from, and googles his name. Immediately he will be introduced to Cage Rage and Pride amongst other promotions, and realise that there is more than just UFC out there to follow. It works the other way round too. A Cage Rage fan could be gutted that Silva is gone, just as a Rage/Warriors fan would have initially been gutted to see Bisping go (how ironic that CR booted him out anyway for no good reason lol). However, this disappointment will be replaced with elation the moment they see their favourite fighters kicking ass on the big stage. This will also help globalize even the die-hard local fans – ‘I was watching him when…’ etc.

    Although the draw may be lower until a replacement is warmed to by local fans, this will be offset by global fans attending due to their newly acquired knowledge that there –is- good fighters/match-ups right on their doorstep outside of, for example, UFC/Pride. A huge draw ‘homecoming’ fight would also be a possibility too with NPO. After the old boys have done their thing on the world stage, they can simply out-bid the big promotions. That is a possibility that is currently implausible with the bully type contracts utilised by the big promotions, and would be superior for both the finances and reputation of the local promotion than an extra couple of squash fights before the fighter moves on.

    I know you said you are finished on the subject, Alvin, but I do appreciate your opinions and I hope that, now we’ve had a break lol, you can find the time and energy to continue for another post or two.

    Git.

    PS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Boone
    This is one of my favourite debates in the short history of the new version of this forum. You two are doing an awesome job.
    Thanks Matt, I’ll be replying to your excellent points later – this is hard work for me because I’m not naturally too good at debate, so I am grateful for the compliment.
    Last edited by Hypergit; 07-22-2006 at 12:56 PM.

  2. #12
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    Ok, one more then!

    I would have to fall in your global fan category as I couldn't care less who was promoting the fights at all. If Lindland Vs Rampage was on a KOTC, ROTR or WFA it wouldn't make a difference to me.

    However I'll put this theory to you.

    King of the Cage (or any other "smaller" promotions) signed a deal that had
    Rampage Vs Babalu
    Henderson Vs Franklin
    Fedor Vs Arlovski
    Gomi Vs BJ Penn.

    They spent a small fortune in getting these fights, they then spend another fortune promoting it.

    You see this & think, fuck yeah, I'm going. You book tickets & flights to see this card. The same night the WFA or Strikeforce (I don't wanna seem that I'm picking on the UFC) have Frank Shamrock scheduled to fight Tito Ortiz, but Tito pulls out two weeks to fight night. They then offer Henderson more bux to switch cards. No contract involved so Hendo makes his apologies & switches. Then the same happens & Fedor pulls out to fight in Pride & Penn is now fighting in ROTR, with Babalu fighting at Cage Rage.

    The KOTC promotors are looking at their bill & thinking WTF. They then get a few journeymen to fill in the gaps.

    You turn up after spending a fortune to get there & instead of watching an awesome card you left with a card of exhibition type mis-matches.

    Now the point of this is KOTC did nothing wrong, neither did any of the other promotions that poached their card (they gotta fill seats too), you could say that the fighters shoud have stayed to their word & not switched, but like I said earlier they got mouths to feed so the more money they get for fighting the better.

    However you as a mma fan have just been royally screwed. As a one off situation you may forgive KOTC, however it happens the very next card as well. That's it you are pissed off & never go to another KOTC event again cos you know it's gonna fall through.

    The result is you the fan have been ripped off & are disillusioned with mma & KOTC folds. Through no-ones fault.

    Say what you like about promoters, but they do a damn good job most of the time & without them there would be no mma as we now know it.

    Hmmmm...... shit I went on there. Not bad to say that I was done with this topic!!!

  3. #13
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    Sorry Alvin, my objection to your last post is going to make you

    Your entire post (in addition to the portion of your previous post that I ignored) is based on the erroneous assumption that NPO would not be contracting the fighters.

    Maybe I didn't make it clear enough earlier, but NPO would be contracting the fighters to the promoters (per card) and/or to NPO. Therefore, there is no reason why problems like the one you describe (or similar such as the current WFA farce) would be increased. In fact, it is quite possible that they could be decreased in some way through the strength of a global NPO (more threatening punishments to unreliable fighters), or a 'double' contract (both NPO and the promoters are binding the fighter to the card).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin
    Say what you like about promoters, but they do a damn good job most of the time & without them there would be no mma as we now know it.
    I would agree they have done a good job, and that mma has grown massively because of them (hell, I would still be a pure Aikidoka if it wasn’t for Bushido & K1s efforts). Much progress in all fields of life is through competition. However, I think the point is near (or has arrived) where working together or having a regulatory body is preferable to outright war.

    A rather tenuous analogy could be the cooperation of the European countries (which officially began in the 1950s I believe). Much political, scientific, and social progress was made through the competition between countries. However, once the major players decided that singing from the same song book was the way forward, their wealth, political strength, culture, general ethics etc improved greatly. Lol there’s gotta be a better example than that, but you catch my drift I’m sure.

    git.

  4. #14
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    No, I totally agree If the NPO will guarentee the card then it would certainly work, however surely the purpose of the NPO would be to get the fighter the best possible deal. Therefore it couldn't possibly object to a fighter under their cloak to getting a better pay for the same work just under another fight card.

    But the end of the day you the fight fan have missed out.

    Incidentally how ironic is it that this thread went this way & then the WFA had this exact problem?!?!?!

    Maybe it will prove a point to see how many people get upset with the WFA show & don't buy the ppv.

    As an earlier poster already stated, the NPO would progress to become a union & run well it would do well. But how many unions are run well?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin
    No, I totally agree If the NPO will guarentee the card then it would certainly work, however surely the purpose of the NPO would be to get the fighter the best possible deal. Therefore it couldn't possibly object to a fighter under their cloak to getting a better pay for the same work just under another fight card.?
    The way I’m currently thinking, the NPO would arbitrate the signing of a single fight contract with the highest bidding promotion. NPO would also bind the fighters to the card (as the fighters would be signed up to NPO’s conditions – and sticking to a commitment would have to be in that contract). Each promotion that is viable to bid for the fight would get their chance. If they then tried to tempt the fighters with a better offer after bidding had closed, there would be repercussions for future dealings with NPO, and presumably they could also be sued. If a promotion did so anyway, then the fighters would also be putting themselves in a poor legal and future earnings position if they accepted the offer to switch cards.

    NPO is committed to the bettering of MMA first and foremost – that entails looking after the fans and promotions as well as the fighters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin
    As an earlier poster already stated, the NPO would progress to become a union & run well it would do well. But how many unions are run well?
    I still don’t think it is a union. There are undoubtedly similarities, but also major differences imo. I will be thinking of this further for my response to Matt’s post.

    git.

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