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[terriblet]

Whether Ben won the 1st rd or not is irrelevant because if it would've gone to a 3rd rd everybody admits that Ben was completely spent and that Tommy would've dominated that rd too.So there's no sense in argueing about who won the 1st rd.

[J-diggler]

I actually did think tommy had ben trouble inthe first, when he landed that HUGE right from a standing position ben looked stunned then rolled to his side and looked to be covering instead of working from the bottom.

[Bullock]

It was a close round.

[ufobydeath]

It was a really close round and arguments could be made either way. In the end it doesn't matter much though I think that if it went to a third Tommy might've actually finished Ben.

[NixHex]

Originally Posted by terriblet

Whether Ben won the 1st rd or not is irrelevant because if it would've gone to a 3rd rd everybody admits that Ben was completely spent and that Tommy would've dominated that rd too.So there's no sense in argueing about who won the 1st rd.

It's not irrelevant really, because a lot has been made of how the judges score fights... and the lack of giving the bottom man credit is a huge reason why the judging system needs to be reevaluated.

Tommy landed 2 solid shots while standing to pass guard, and Ben was seconds away from finishing it now only once w/ the armbar, but also immediately after that w/ the triangle. Ben was on bottom but he kept Tommy off balance, and worked some strikes & the 2 sub attempts.

I was one that said Tommy would've dominated the 3rd anyway, but I think Joker made this thread to see how people score fights. This is the classic case of the bottom man being the more dangerous fighter, and there should've been a 3rd.

[2mcgrath]

i think tommy won both rds because he had quiet a few takedowns and done some damage,and we all know the judges love takedowns.

about all ben done in the first round was a few submission attempts.

[Bobcat1]

I'm not sure how failed submissions should be scored. I tend to see them as carrying the same weight as being in top control, but no better, since a failed submission really doesn't do damage like a strike would and in fact only negates the opponent's ability to pass or strike while in the submission. So, since Ben's subs in round one lasted about a minute, and Tommy was doing more damage and had a positional advantage for the remaining 3 minutes, I'd give round one to Tommy.

[NixHex]

Originally Posted by Bobcat1

I'm not sure how failed submissions should be scored. I tend to see them as carrying the same weight as being in top control, but no better, since a failed submission really doesn't do damage like a strike would and in fact only negates the opponent's ability to pass or strike while in the submission. So, since Ben's subs in round one lasted about a minute, and Tommy was doing more damage and had a positional advantage for the remaining 3 minutes, I'd give round one to Tommy.

A failed submission attempt like Ben's last night certainly did much more damage than any strike in the fight. The previews revealed somebody is not going to be able to fight in the semi's, and I think it's going to be Tommy because his arm got fucked up from that failed submission attempt.

Even failed submissions do damage, they don't "only negate an opponent's ability to pass or strike while in the submission"... and even though it was failed it was much much much closer to finishing the fight than anything else that happened (a close 2nd was the failed triangle choke). And Tommy had a few takedowns in Round 1, but only landed 2 good punches while standing to pass guard.

Originally Posted by 2mcgrath

about all ben done in the first round was a few submission attempts.

Understatement of the year.

[Paytheplayer]

You know you could argue this to death, but in the end Tommy won the round and nobody was arguing, including Ben. He knew he lost. I knew he lost. Vegetable lasagna knew he lost. Regardless if we THINK Ben should have won the round, thats how the UFC judging system is, and thats how you would know that Tommy would get the round. End of story.